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Is beer completely forbidden for us?

HowToEscape?

Senior Member
Messages
626
I've noticed that often, I can't tolerate even modest amounts of beer or wine. At those time even a couple ounces result in a mild headache, followed by being knocked down, so that I have to lay down for about 2 hours. At other times though, I can slowly have about 8 oz of beer or 2/3 glass of wine without issue. Before I got sick my alcohol tolerance was normal -- didn't drink much, but no problem when I did.

But I'm wondering if I should avoid all beer, because
a) obviously I no longer metabolize ethanol normally and
b) heard somewhere that there may be some issue specifically with beer and ME/CF beyond just metabolizing it slowly

There's some delightful blackberry wheat bear I haven't finished yet, and I'm stuck inside due to brain fog anyway. Hat to waste that, but if there are subtle longer term (more than a few hours) consequences, away it goes.
 

jeffrez

Senior Member
Messages
1,112
Location
NY
It's all up to the individual and what s/he tolerates. There's a thread here somewhere discussing someone's improvements with non-alcoholic beer, and other possible health benefits of NA beer. You might want to consider trying that instead of the alcohol versions.
 

Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
Messages
19,935
Location
Albuquerque
It's all up to the individual and what s/he tolerates. There's a thread here somewhere discussing someone's improvements with non-alcoholic beer, and other possible health benefits of NA beer. You might want to consider trying that instead of the alcohol versions.


Or, maybe gluten free beer? Could possibly be the gluten you are reacting to.

Sushi
 

brenda

Senior Member
Messages
2,266
Location
UK
I tried the AF beer for inflamation, but had to stop it after two weeks. It didn't do anything for pain and I started to go downhill and most importantly, stopped losing weight which I am working on with my new diet.
 

HowToEscape?

Senior Member
Messages
626
Or, maybe gluten free beer? Could possibly be the gluten you are reacting to.

Sushi

How would I know if I have gluten intolerance? I tried cutting out all bread for 5 days quite a while, it made no difference. Perhaps there's a gluten tolerance test a doc can administer, but I don't yet suspect I have that issue.

Alcohol intolerance should be one of the diagnostic tests, along with heat etc. Trying to diagnose us with blood tests is a fool's errand; it's like using a ph strip to test for radioactivity.
"Nothing to see here. Never mind that blue glow you imagine you see."
 

Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
Messages
19,935
Location
Albuquerque
HowToEscape?

Gluten intolerance can be tested for but even if it is negative a person can be reacting to gluten--the test isn't that sensitive. It often takes months after cutting out gluten so see results.

You could always try a small amount of another type of alcohol to check whether it is the alcohol you are reacting to.

Best,
Sushi
 

lansbergen

Senior Member
Messages
2,512
Alcohol intolerance should be one of the diagnostic tests, along with heat etc. "

Would prove nothing.

Now I am improved a lot I can drink beer again. When I came home today from shopping I drank a nice cold pilsner. I enjoyed it and it had no bad effects,

That does not mean I am cured. I still have the disease.
 

Sean

Senior Member
Messages
7,378
The alcohol fermentation process produces a huge range of different compounds. Ethanol is the vast bulk of the product, with small amounts of the other compounds. However, many of these non-ethanol compounds, such as methanol, propanol, ethyl acetate, acetone, etc, are highly undesirable from a health point of view, in almost any quantity, for anybody. (They are also the main causes of the hangover effect.)

Non-distilled beverage alcohols, such as beer or wine, contains all of these compounds. (Often with some others added, like sulphur based preservatives.)

Distilled beverage alcohols (ie, spirits, at least the better quality ones,) have had most of those compounds mostly or entirely removed. (Which is part of the reason for distilling.)

Doesn't mean distilled spirits are harmless, even the cleanest ethanol itself can be a serious problem for patients. Drink enough ethanol and you will feel like crap the next day. But good quality distilled spirits – especially vodka – are likely to be less damaging (for equivalent amounts of ethanol consumed), because you are not getting any, or anywhere near as much, of the other compounds.
 

vamah

Senior Member
Messages
593
Location
Washington , DC area
I have had the same types of problems. Beer and wine give me intense headaches, but I can tolerate vodka in small amounts. Beer can contain a lot of yeast, which can be an issue of your stomach bacteria are not good.
 

MeSci

ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
Messages
8,231
Location
Cornwall, UK
How would I know if I have gluten intolerance? I tried cutting out all bread for 5 days quite a while, it made no difference. Perhaps there's a gluten tolerance test a doc can administer, but I don't yet suspect I have that issue.

Gluten is in a huge range of products, so just cutting out bread would not guarantee that you were not consuming gluten.

Like many people here, I have seen great benefit from cutting out gluten and reducing carbs generally.

Also, you may need to stick with a dietary change and/or supplement regime for weeks or months before experiencing a benefit, and you may need to make a number of changes rather than just one or two. I have found this from many years of failed attempts to treat myself, culminating last year (after 17 years of illness) with apparently finding the right combination at last!
 

HowToEscape?

Senior Member
Messages
626
Would prove nothing.

Now I am improved a lot I can drink beer again. When I came home today from shopping I drank a nice cold pilsner. I enjoyed it and it had no bad effects,

That does not mean I am cured. I still have the disease.

Interesting, that's new to me. I wonder if that means that some of the symptoms we have which are certainly abnormal - I and many other never had the ethanol intolerance before being sick - can't be used diagnostically?
OR
does it mean we need to have a laundry list and a percentage -- e.g. 25 common symptoms, and if you have 15 it's concluded as "subject most likely has CF/ME".

Wouldn't mind recovering enough to enjoy some Islay Scotch.

ah, wait

"Distilled beverage alcohols (ie, spirits, at least the better quality ones,) have had most of those compounds mostly or entirely removed."

Ha! I'll have to try that. "Sorry, I can only drink fine whisky, doctor's orders" ;-)
 

Sushi

Moderation Resource Albuquerque
Messages
19,935
Location
Albuquerque
I didn't used to be able to tolerate any beer and wine in the first years of illness, but now can drink a beer without ill effect. But I do use non-gluten beer because of being on a gluten free diet.

Sushi
 

HowToEscape?

Senior Member
Messages
626
But sriously

"methanol, propanol, ethyl acetate, acetone

Nasty stuff. A few minutes with google brought up that in the case of methanol, that contamination is more likely where fruit was part of the fermented product. But it's also in places you wouldn't expect, such as dried beans. After you cook those beans I'd think any methanol would have boiled off. Most of it anyway ...

this is from the WHO.
http://www.inchem.org/documents/ehc/ehc/ehc196.htm
Methanol has been identified as a volatile component of dried
legumes with reported levels of 1.5-7.9 mg/kg in beans, 3.6 mg/kg in
split peas and 4.4 mg/kg in lentils (Lovegren et al., 1979)

Wine has more CH3OH, which makes sense considering it's made from grapes, possibly including the skin
Methanol was found at levels of
6-27 mg/litre in beer, 96-321 mg/litre in wines and 10-220 mg/litre
in distilled spirits (Greizerstein, 1981).

One drinks distilled stuff in far smaller amounts than wine (or one has other problems) so net methanol intake is less.

Eh, I'm not feeling so good about that blackberry witbier. It's only milligrams CH3OH
plus whatever amounts of other nasty stuff (acetone -- ouch!) but this is one bizarre disease,
so I'll skip that until I'm in much better shape than now.
 

lansbergen

Senior Member
Messages
2,512
HowToEscape?, post: 367824, member: 618"]Interesting, that's new to me. I wonder if that means that some of the symptoms we have which are certainly abnormal - I and many other never had the ethanol intolerance before being sick - can't be used diagnostically?

It can help but is not conclusive.

OR
does it mean we need to have a laundry list and a percentage -- e.g. 25 common symptoms, and if you have 15 it's concluded as "subject most likely has CF/ME".

Something like that till the cause is found and a test is available.

A major symptom all patients have and is not found in other diseases could be diagnostic.