High NK cells?

[justy]

My results from Redlabs showed increased Perforin. Their website describes the test as relating to NK cell function:

PERFORIN EXPRESSION ASSAY
Natural Killer cells (NK) cells are cytotoxic cells that mediate the immune response against certain cancer and virus-infected cells. NK cells are normally found in the peripheral blood, and are classified by their cell surface markers as CD3-/CD56+cells. NK cells activity is altered in several disorders such as multiple sclerosis, lupus, and CFS, and is very sensitive to various environmental pollutants. Since NK cells play a central role in the defense against viruses, decreased NK activity can lead to the development of opportunistic viral infections. NK cells exert their cytotoxic effect by releasing perforin, a protein that will destroy the cytoplasmic membrane of target cells and finally kill them. Expression of perforin mRNA can be measured as a mean to evaluate NK cell activation.

It also says that most PWME/CFS have LOW NK cell function, whereas mine seems to be HIGH. I also now have a positive ANA - although of course others here have pointed out that the titres are not high - 80, with a speckled pattern (non specific). I disagree that this is not important as its only unimportant to have low positive ANA if you don't have symptoms - I clearly do have symptoms.

So im just wondering really what High NK cell activity really means. It looks to me like one section of my immune system is overactive, although KDM said the other part was underactive (TH1?) I have to admit that I don't really understand this, and the only information I can find easily on the net related to high NK cell activity is all to do with fertility and miscarriage. Does this mean that my body is desperately trying to kill something (I also have high cytokines - specifically IL8, and high prostaglandins (E2))

What do those of us with HIGH NK cells have in common, if anything?

What does it mean if my NK cells are high?

 

[heapsreal]

My results from Redlabs showed increased Perforin. Their website describes the test as relating to NK cell function:



It also says that most PWME/CFS have LOW NK cell function, whereas mine seems to be HIGH. I also now have a positive ANA - although of course others here have pointed out that the titres are not high - 80, with a speckled pattern (non specific). I disagree that this is not important as its only unimportant to have low positive ANA if you don't have symptoms - I clearly do have symptoms.

So im just wondering really what High NK cell activity really means. It looks to me like one section of my immune system is overactive, although KDM said the other part was underactive (TH1?) I have to admit that I don't really understand this, and the only information I can find easily on the net related to high NK cell activity is all to do with fertility and miscarriage. Does this mean that my body is desperately trying to kill something (I also have high cytokines - specifically IL8, and high prostaglandins (E2))

What do those of us with HIGH NK cells have in common, if anything?

What does it mean if my NK cells are high?

I wonder if that would make u a candidate for rituximab??
There has been a few with normal/high nk function but with low cd8 t cell function?

 

[ukxmrv]

I'm still trying to get my head around the while NK cells thing. Had about 4 tests of different types over 10 years or so. Two in research type settings and my first were for infertility.

The latest one showed NK 56 bright and dim and my bright cells were very high and my dim cells very low.

The inferility NK cell tests were borderline high and strong killing power.

A CFS test showed NK cells with low activity.

I'm guessing that in my case they were all testing different aspects.

Never had perforin tested (that I am aware of)

Sorry I can't be of any help.

 

[alex3619]

I do not know that high perforin means much. The only way to test NK function is to test NK function. Put the NK cells in a situation where they react, then see how they react.

ME is a disease with possibly thousands of consequences. But wait, there's more. The body then gets to react to those thousands of consequences, creating even more complications. But wait, there's still more. Some of those affect ME and so change how the ME works. Which changes the consequences. Which changes the reactions. Which changes ... its a nest of complicated ever-changing spaghetti loops. Its why we are all so very different.

On the other hand restoring NK function has yet to be shown to be important for treating ME itself. Its important in its own right, we need NK cells working, but is it important for ME?

One possibility, and its not even close to certain, is that high perforin might be how your body is responding to low NK function. That is how complicated this all is. If we want to understand NK function, we need to actually test NK function. My local path labs failed to do this too.

 

[Sushi]

@justy

FWIW, I had very high perforin expression too. Rich once wrote about here:

I suggest that this new result is consistent with the mechanism I have proposed for low perforin in ME/CFS. It indicates that the NK cells and CD8 cells are "trying hard" to produce perforin by boosting the transcription of the PRF1 gene to messenger RNA, but the protein synthesis process is at least partially blocked and cannot respond. If glutathione is somewhat depleted in the NK cells and CD8 cells, the protein synthesis process would indeed be partially blocked.

Sushi

 

[Gingergrrl]

I just got my NK functioning test back with super low result of five but the word "Perforin" never mentioned to me. Is this a different test or the name of the test in other countries? Or neither?

 

[Sushi]

I just got my NK functioning test back with super low result of five but the word "Perforin" never mentioned to me. Is this a different test or the name of the test in other countries? Or neither?

Different test.

Sushi

 

[alex3619]

Rich and I agreed that glutathione is critical in protein folding. So something else just occurred to me. You might have oodles of perforin, but is it functional? If its not folded right then its essentially broken perforin. Proteins are synthesized in long chains. These chains are then modified, which can include methylation, and then folded. Glutathione assists tying proteins up in knots, which often makes them globular, or at least not strings. Yet chemically the protein is there even if its a string. Such a protein is described as denatured.

 

[IreneF]

The NK function test is done using something called flow cytometry. It is a measure of how well the NK cells kill tumor cells. They release perforin to do it, but the amount of perforin is not a functional measure, because the NK cells could contain plenty of perforin but not be releasing it when they encounter an appropriate target.

 

[justy]

Wow! thanks everyone, that's astoundingly complicated then...

KDM did say that my immune function was very low and in a right mess, so I suppose it means something important to him - I guess we don't know what it really all means, but practitioners/doctors who have seen lots of these results and treated lots of people can read something into them.

And I thought I had asked such a simple question.

 

[Gingergrrl]

@justy Everything with this illness is astoundingly complicated but thank God we have such intelligent people here on PR to help interpret things!

 

[Little Bluestem]

ME is a disease with possibly thousands of consequences. But wait, there's more. The body then gets to react to those thousands of consequences, creating even more complications. But wait, there's still more. Some of those affect ME and so change how the ME works. Which changes the consequences. Which changes the reactions. Which changes ... its a nest of complicated ever-changing spaghetti loops. Its why we are all so very different.

I think this is overly simplistic.

Most PwME ingest, inject, inhale, and apply dermally a wide variety of substance. They also engage in a variety of activities that they hope will be therapeutic. All of these interact with the thousands of consequences and with one another.

 

[alex3619]

Of course, @Little Bluestem . If I listed all the things that interact, from just the ones I know, it would be huge and overwhelming. So I skim over most of them. This is not a simple issue, yet some want to treat it as one.