Are there supplements or non medication techniques to raise BP?

[ellenelle]

@beaker I do not drink enough and this is solely my fault but I am doing the best I can which right now is trying to reach eight glasses per day. I do take a prescription potassium so I don't think that is an issue. I have no problems with the salt or adding Vitalyte to my water but I really struggled with Pedialyte b/c it tastes so awful.

Just a thought: before I started using a water filter (many years ago), I couldn't bear to drink lots of water. It turns out when you filter it, water tastes good and drinking it is an entirely different experience. Not to mention, it's much better for you.

 

[WoolPippi]

So how are you doing on the BP?

I wanted to toss in my 2 cents, if you don't mind.
The problem with low BP not mentioned yet is that you do not have enough pressure to push the nutrients into your tissues and organs. The very thing blood is supposed to deliver to them! My low BP left my body malnutrioned.

I remedied this by making sure I got all the nutrients I need on board (via homemade chicken broth and multi gland pills).
Then I got BP up via 3 solutions:
1. by taking Hydrocortisone (adrenal problems add to my ME). Since adrenals determine BP all things that unburden the adrenals will help BP. So no stress, lots of salt, lots of vit. C, lots of stomach acidifying (HCL, lemon juice, vinegar)
2. upping salt intake. I add salt to all my tea and water. It's the first thing I drink, even before raising from the bed.
3. lie flat an hour after eating. As in: eat, wait an hour, then lie flat. One hour after eating the stomach is about to release food into the duodenum, where the majority of uptake occurs. By lying flat the body can focus on uptake, not on keeping BP up. I lie flat after breakfast, after lunch and after dinner.
3.5 eating red meat helped also (I have no idea why).

You mention potassium in one of your posts (kalium for non-US) and this wrecked me every time. I keep away from that stuff. So try out and feel how it works for you.
The same with licorice root, it would wreck me. Perhaps because it gives the adrenals a kick and they are down already?
I don't know. But I do know that with this illness we are not supposed to take common wisdom to be our truth. It's all trial and error and tailor fitting to your own body.

my BP is now up, from years of 90/60 and malnurishment to 100/65 these days. I was told 90/60 is the point where nutrients do not reach your organs and cells. Well, hope this is something. I wonder how you are doing

 

[Gingergrrl]

@WoolPippi

So how are you doing on the BP?

Thank you so much for your detailed response! Overall my BP remains pretty low with a few days back in the 80's/50's. When it gets that low I take Midodrine which brings it back up to the 90's/60's but doesn't seem to ever raise it beyond that.

I wanted to toss in my 2 cents, if you don't mind.

Absolutely not and the more the merrier! This is one of those threads that I want to go back and re-read when I have time b/c I think I missed a lot.

The problem with low BP not mentioned yet is that you do not have enough pressure to push the nutrients into your tissues and organs. The very thing blood is supposed to deliver to them! My low BP left my body malnutrioned.

I hadn't thought about it quite that way but I do think I am malnourished for many reasons.

I remedied this by making sure I got all the nutrients I need on board (via homemade chicken broth and multi gland pills).

I don't know what multi gland pills are but my husband cooks bone broth (chicken and beef) into a soup with meat and vegetables that I eat during the week.

Then I got BP up via 3 solutions:
1. by taking Hydrocortisone (adrenal problems add to my ME). Since adrenals determine BP all things that unburden the adrenals will help BP. So no stress, lots of salt, lots of vit. C, lots of stomach acidifying (HCL, lemon juice, vinegar)

Thus far my Endo says that I do not need hydro-cortisone. I need to repeat the saliva cortisol test for my CFS doctor which has been on my "to do" list since Dec. I don't know how to eliminate stress but I do eat TONS of salt and take 1000 mg of liposomal Vit C every day. I am confused if you are saying stomach acid is bad or good but I take Zantac every day which seems to help.

2. upping salt intake. I add salt to all my tea and water. It's the first thing I drink, even before raising from the bed.

I take salt stick tablets every day and have significantly improved my water intake after many lectures but Sushi, SOC, Jeff, zzz and too many to count!!! Some how it finally got into my head how important this is and I have been drinking at least 8 glasses per day and now sometimes 9-10 glasses

3. lie flat an hour after eating. As in: eat, wait an hour, then lie flat. One hour after eating the stomach is about to release food into the duodenum, where the majority of uptake occurs. By lying flat the body can focus on uptake, not on keeping BP up. I lie flat after breakfast, after lunch and after dinner.

Does lying flat an hour after eating help you with shortness of breath also (or is that not an issue for you?)

3.5 eating red meat helped also (I have no idea why).

I do eat red meat as much as I can tolerate (which is not a lot!)

You mention potassium in one of your posts (kalium for non-US) and this wrecked me every time. I keep away from that stuff. So try out and feel how it works for you.

I am prescribed Potassium 20 meq by my cardio and it seems to help me. Even with it my Potassium levels remain on the low end of normal.

The same with licorice root, it would wreck me. Perhaps because it gives the adrenals a kick and they are down already?

I have not tried licorice root and my doctor felt this one would not be good for me (although now I forget why!) I think it might give tachycardia or interfere with other meds?

It's all trial and error and tailor fitting to your own body.

I totally agree.

my BP is now up, from years of 90/60 and malnurishment to 100/65 these days. I was told 90/60 is the point where nutrients do not reach your organs and cells. Well, hope this is something. I wonder how you are doing

My BP sometimes reaches 100/65 at night time but never in the morning or afternoon and never consistently. I wish it did though! Thank you for checking on me, it was very kind of you!

 

[ahimsa]

Some how it finally got into my head how important this is and I have been drinking at least 8 glasses per day and now sometimes 9-10 glasses

Congrats!! I remember reading how hard it was hard for you to increase your liquid intake.

Does lying flat an hour after eating help you with shortness of breath also (or is that not an issue for you?)

Just a quick note, even though you asked Woolpippi and not me.

I sometimes get short of breath. Lying in the recliner with my feet up (which is not completely flat) helps me a lot. Any time is helpful but reclining after eating is even more important. I think it is due to blood pooling in the abdomen (splanchnic pooling) after eating.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I don't know if it has been mentioned here before, but the only thing that consistently helped me with low BP has been T3 replacement - so far from 90/60 to 110/70, being my "normal" 120/70 (so this is medication, sorry).

 

[WoolPippi]

I don't know what multi gland pills are

supplement pills that contain grounded up animal glands. I take Biotics Multigland. They smell weird! (raspberry + cat wee) but my body loves them.
[QUOTE="Gingergrrl, post: 555928, member: 15021"][USER=11067]
but my husband cooks bone broth (chicken and beef) into a soup with meat and vegetables that I eat during the week.
[/QUOTE]
That's the ticket :) I make one big pan for the week too.

[QUOTE="Gingergrrl, post: 555928, member: 15021"][USER=11067]
I am confused if you are saying stomach acid is bad or good but I take Zantac every day which seems to help. [/QUOTE]
most people do not have enough acid in their stomach and then their food does not digest well enough. And it takes a lot of cortisol to produce more stomach acid. Hence my advice to "acidify your stomach using vinegar, lemon juice or HCL (Hydro Chloridic Acid)."
But your Zantac is the opposite of vinegar, it makes the stomach less acidic, probably because you have an ulcer (?), so it would not be wise for you to make your stomach acid stronger. It would eat through the stomach lining more quickly.


[QUOTE="Gingergrrl, post: 555928, member: 15021"][USER=11067]
Does lying flat an hour after eating help you with shortness of breath also (or is that not an issue for you?)[/QUOTE]
That's not an issue for me. I do however nearly pass out after I've had a bowel movement :meh:

congrats on drinking enough :thumbsup:[/user][/user][/user]

 

[Gondwanaland]

most people do not have enough acid in their stomach and then their food does not digest well enough. And it takes a lot of cortisol to produce more stomach acid. Hence my advice to "acidify your stomach using vinegar, lemon juice or HCL (Hydro Chloridic Acid)."
But your Zantac is the opposite of vinegar, it makes the stomach less acidic, probably because you have an ulcer (?), so it would not be wise for you to make your stomach acid stronger. It would eat through the stomach lining more quickly.

How about digestive enzymes for that? I have low BP too and probably nutrition isn't reaching my cells (thank for pointing that out, @WoolPippi !), but I started deigestive enzymes last December and have been feeling brighter

Also I think that is why I benefit greatly from supplementing just a small dose of minerals

Also, I have been willing to try glands for a long time now.

 

[WoolPippi]

How about digestive enzymes for that? I have low BP too and probably nutrition isn't reaching my cells (thank for pointing that out, @WoolPippi !), but I started deigestive enzymes last December and have been feeling brighter

Also I think that is why I benefit greatly from supplementing just a small dose of minerals

Also, I have been willing to try glands for a long time now.

ah yes, I forgot about the enzymes! I take those too when I'm poorly. Took them a lot in the beginning. when I was really really sick. You are so (b)right!

We should bath our struggling cells in the very stuff they put in a petri dish when they pamper them in the lab.

So get all the minerals on board and all the amino acids too (supplements, bone broth, egg yolk, gelatine). Break them down with digestive enzymes and digestive acids and peaceful ruminating. Get them delivered to the cell with adequate blood pressure and create suction at the other side of the tissue with lymph activation (this consists of gentle stretching while yawning. Nothing more is needed. Walking helps too but yawning and stretching suffices. Look at how (often) the cat does this for inspiration.)
And once it's at the cell membrane the cells need sodium to aid the kalium-sodium pump to get the stuff inside.

it's all so easy to write down
but it gives me hope that there are more approaches to the problem when I cannot fix the BP sufficiently.

Edit to remind myself: I once had mineral pills that dissolve in the mouth and travel into the body via the lining of the mouth. No digestion needed. There are also things that the outer skin can absorb, like creams or footh baths. Or expell waiste via the skin, with clay in baths.

 

[charlie1]

@Gingergrrl , You and I have talked about the Droxidopa and both concluded it would be costly considering we must dose according to what we're told. My husband wants me to try it (although being Canadian that might be difficult) but I'm interested in Desmopressin since reading what jeff_w had to say about it raising blood pressure. Have you considered taking that?

 

[charlie1]

also, I think that a daily small dose hydrocortisol would be a good thing to try for an energy boost and to raise blood pressure but like you, my conventional doctors say I don't need it (according to lab results). I may go to a functional doctor an hour away who can prescribe meds and uses both symptoms and blood work to evaluate the patients needs. He also uses applied kinesilogy in his assessments and that unfortunately turns me off. . Many people are fine with that but I don't believe in it.....

 

[Gondwanaland]

pplied kinesilogy

Look to the bright side: it's better than lab results only

 

[Gingergrrl]

@Gingergrrl , You and I have talked about the Droxidopa and both concluded it would be costly considering we must dose according to what we're told. My husband wants me to try it (although being Canadian that might be difficult) but I'm interested in Desmopressin since reading what jeff_w had to say about it raising blood pressure. Have you considered taking that?

Hi @charlie1 As far as Droxidopa, in the US you can get it for free under that program and it arrives in the mail via that speciality pharmacy (I would have to scroll back through this thread to find my post where I documented all the info.) In my case, I did not do it b/c my cardio and the Droxidopa rep said I would have to follow their protocol to get the med which was several pills per day and tapering upward quite fast. I knew my body would not tolerate the amount or taper so I ruled it out as an option. But it was not b/c of cost b/c it would have been free under that program b/c I qualified. Without that program, it was super expensive (thousands per month) and cost would have ruled it out. I am not sure if this program is available in Canada?

As far as Desmopressin, I have never tried it b/c in general it is for diabetes inspidus (DI) which is for excessive thirst and frequent urination which I do not have. It is a serious medication and it affects your kidneys so you hold your urine which in turn increases blood volume (and I assume also blood pressure.) It can have some dangerous side effects including messing with your electrolyte levels (which at the extreme could lead to water poisoning.) But for people who need it, it can be a life-saver. I am extremely sensitive to the tiniest doses of meds and after a lot of research and talking to others, I felt this would not be a good med for me. You are supposed to decrease fluid intake with it and I am trying to increase fluid intake and overall, it wasn't the right thing for me. But you might ask Jeff as each person's experience and what meds they benefit from are different.

One other thing is you have mentioned getting bradycardia from certain meds which in my entire life has never happened to me. I am the opposite and get tachycardia from everything so we are different in that sense. I would just keep that in mind when looking at med options. For whatever reason, since I started Valcyte (still at a very low dose) it is increasing my BP and I am hoping that this continues.

 

[charlie1]

@Gingergrrl Was it difficult for you to get the Valcyte b/c if it's raising your BP, it might be an option I can look into.
I'd need to find a CFS doctor in Michigan though as neither of my doctors in Canada know anything about ME/CFS let alone anti-viral treatments. I have no idea if my illness was due to a virus...lethargy and weakness seemed to develp over a few months and then WAM! I thought I was dying...seriously.
I did have an awful lot of cold sores in high school and young adult so could that point to EBV??
Are you experiencing any ill effects of the Valycyte at all, even at your very low dose?

Midodrine is the only medicine that caused my bradycardia to worsen (low 30's) and stayed there for 8 hrs both times I tried it! It was scary. And it didn't raise my BP at all!!

 

[Gingergrrl]

@Gingergrrl Was it difficult for you to get the Valcyte b/c if it's raising your BP, it might be an option I can look into.
I'd need to find a CFS doctor in Michigan though as neither of my doctors in Canada know anything about ME/CFS let alone anti-viral treatments. I have no idea if my illness was due to a virus...lethargy and weakness seemed to develp over a few months and then WAM! I thought I was dying...seriously.
I did have an awful lot of cold sores in high school and young adult so could that point to EBV??
Are you experiencing any ill effects of the Valycyte at all, even at your very low dose?

Midodrine is the only medicine that caused my bradycardia to worsen (low 30's) and stayed there for 8 hrs both times I tried it! It was scary. And it didn't raise my BP at all!!

@charlie1 I realized the thread where I talked about my conversation with the Droxidopa rep was not this thread (sorry for any confusion!) and let me know if you can't find it.

As far as Valcyte, I have no idea if it would increase your BP like it has been doing with mine and that is not the reason that I am taking it. I am not having any side effects at my low dose and continue to increase the dose every 7-8 days. It is a pretty serious medication but so far it has been great for me.

You asked about Michigan and there is an ME/CFS specialist there who is an expert on anti-virals, Dr. Martin Lerner. I have never seen him but others on PR have so you might do a site search and also Google his website. I am not sure how it works with Canadian insurance.

Interesting your experience with Midodrine and it did not really raise my BP either and made me very sedated but never gave me bradycardia.

Good luck and I think if you can do the viral testing, then you will have a better idea of what meds might be appropriate for you.

 

[marypoppins]

I used to suffer from very low blood pressure when I was young. I never got any medication. One thing that helped was old fashioned hydrotherapy (called Kneipp therapy in German speaking countries, after the 19th century naturopath who developed them). For low blood pressure it is the hot/cold treatments, that help. For example, it is recommended to alternate hot & cold shower and always have a cold shower at the end of a shower or bath. I am not very good with cold water, I just cannot do it! However, I used to treat my legs below the knee. I used to sit down on the edge of the bath tub and then shower my legs with warm and then with cold water, alternating several times, always ending with cold water.

(Explanation from Wikipedia: Practitioners of hydrotherapy may seek use it to produce vasodilation and vasoconstriction.[2] These cause changes in blood flow and associated metabolic functions, via physiological mechanisms, including those of thermoregulation,[3] that are these days fairly well understood, and which underpin the contemporary use of hydrotherapy.[4][5])

 

[Gingergrrl]

@marypoppins Are you saying that running hot and then cold water on your legs produces vasoconstriction and raises BP regardless of the cause of the low BP? I have not googled this yet or heard of it before but am curious from your experience!

 

[marypoppins]

I think so. I grew up with this as kind of general knowledge (like New Yorkers will always recommend chicken soup for flu). They also use Kneipp treatments in spas - like having a shallow pool with a hot water and cold water basin. You walk though the hot water and then though the cold water, you can do it several times. Sauna with an ice cold bath or shower afterwards is supposed to works the same way, but that is too much for my system to take. My mother also had low blood pressure and I still remember her screaming in the bathroom when she gave herself cold showers every day

I used to do the showering of the legs when I felt particularly low, and especially in summer as I was not doing well in heat with my legs swelling up. I don't know if it actually gets the blood pressure up, I never measured it , but it feels good. Now that I have learned more about orthostatic intolerance, it also makes sense from the point of view that the blood can pool in the legs and the cold may help the veins to constrict.

This was many years ago. Over the years my blood pressure has gone up to normal, so I don't do it anymore, except showering my legs with cold water, when it is hot outside and the heat is getting to me. I have been doing footsoaks every night for over 25 years and would not want to miss them.

 

[nandixon]

@Gingergrrl - 100mg of Yohimbe (2mg yohimbine) helps with my orthostatic low pulse pressure. It's a supplement, and cheap and easy to get in the US. If worried about reacting badly, it might help to check norepinephrine levels first to make sure that it's low, or at least not high.

I just realized that yohimbine itself is now available OTC in a 2.5mg size capsule:
http://www.iherb.com/Primaforce-Yohimbine-HCl-2-5-mg-90-Veggie-Caps/58663

Perhaps I'm just forgetting, but I only remember seeing yohimbe bark extract when I was looking at this a couple of years ago.(?)

It might be more convenient (although more expensive) in the pure yohimbine form, and hopefully has at least as good an effect as the bark.

Has anyone compared the (standardized) yohimbe bark extract with the pure yohimbine?

 

[Valentijn]

@nandixon - Very interesting! I currently pay about $20 for 100 GNC Yohimbe capsules, which I divide into 400 doses. And the Yohimbine would be providing 180 doses for about $20. So the extract is a bit more than twice as expensive, but still dirt cheap, at about 11 cents per dose.

It could certainly be worth while when splitting doses is too inconvenient or difficult. Too bad I can't buy it while I'm in the Netherlands

 

[ebethc]

@Gingergrrl - 100mg of Yohimbe (2mg yohimbine) helps with my orthostatic low pulse pressure. It's a supplement, and cheap and easy to get in the US. If worried about reacting badly, it might help to check norepinephrine levels first to make sure that it's low, or at least not high.

I have high epinephrine, but average norepinephrine.... If I take yohimbe or strattera, will that provide more of BOTH? I have serious brain fog problems, and lots of inflammation (which is a long term fix, but I need something in the interim... plus, I've been trying to bring down inflammation for a long time and am not having any luck, so maybe I will never succeed..). Yohimbe / strattera / something else are needed to solve brain fog so that I can work to pay for more protocols... ugh... I'm on a treadmill.

thanks for any advice.