Chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia following immunization with the hepatitis B vaccine

[jimells]

Autoimmune/autoinflammatory syndrome induced by adjuvants (ASIA syndrome) in commercial sheep http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23579772

Experimental reproduction of ovine ASIA in a small group of repeatedly vaccinated animals was successful...

This is very disturbing. I would not want to be a parent of a young child, trying to decide whether to allow vaccines, and/or which ones may be safe enough to administer. It seems like every year the list of recommended vaccines just keeps getting longer and longer with no consideration of possible cumulative adverse effects.

Just yesterday I saw TV ads for some kind of pneumonia vaccine. The ad implored us to buy their vaccine, even if we have already received a similar one from their competitor.

How can an average person be expected to wade through the propaganda, conflicts of interest, and conflicting research? Oh wait, we're not supposed to. We're supposed to just do as we're told...

 

[Thomas]

There's no question that vaccines (especially HepB and flu) can trigger ME. It's been proven many times in US Courts. The bigger questions I see here is whether Prof. Shoenfeld can distinguish and diagnose this type of ASIA or ME or autoimmune reaction (whatever you want to call it in this context) from others? And even more importantly, what treatments (if any) has he found to be useful or successful?

If these questions can be answered, then perhaps a significant proportion of the ME community (as I believe there are subtypes to this illness) may be able to put the name of their illness aside and actually treat something that's identifiable on paper. At the end of the day, getting people better should be motive No.1.

Know what I mean?

 

[alex3619]

It's been proven many times in US Courts.

While I agree with the idea hep B vaccine can most likely trigger or worsen ME, its important to realize that a court decision is not a scientific one. Court decisions are often made on incomplete information, and this might even be because the science is not advanced enough yet. Courts can get it wrong, and this argument will be used against such claims by people wanting to deny any connection between hep B vaccine and ME.

 

[natasa778]

Just posted this on another thread

Vaccines Raise MS Risk, JAMA Oct 2014

... there is a short-term increase in risk, suggesting that vaccines may accelerate the transition from subclinical to overt autoimmunity in patients who have existing disease.

http://www.neurologytimes.com/multiple-sclerosis/vaccines-raise-ms-risk-sooner-not-later

Full study is behind a paywall so unclear how they decided who has 'a pre-existing subclinica disease'?? --- were they just blind guessing that, but making it sound 'real'. Or had those patients been tested and/or displayed minor symptoms prior to vaccinations? If not then are they just wildly speculating with the aim of being politically correct and covering their behinds to ward off witchunts?

Should they not be suggesting people are tested for those 'subclinical, pre-existing autoimmune conditions' prior to vaccinations if they are so sure this is what determines who spirals into disease post-vax and who stays fine?

Vaccination of any type was associated with an increased risk of CNS ADS onset within the first 30 days after vaccination only in younger (<50 years) individuals

Study abstract: http://archneur.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=1917549

 

[Helen]

There were objections to swine flue vaccine with adjuvants in Germany in 2009. Note in the article that also the employees at the institute that decided about Pandemrix from Glaxo to the people, got another vaccine from Baxter without adjuvants.

" An Interior Ministry spokesman told SPIEGEL that the Baxter vaccine had been ordered for all ministries and other agencies as well as for the employees of the Paul Ehrlich Institute, the authority responsible for approving vaccines."

http://www.bmj.com/content/339/bmj.b4335.short

http://www.spiegel.de/international...ine-flu-vaccine-for-politicians-a-656028.html

 

[adreno]

Some children who got the swine flu vaccine developed narcolepsy.

Narcolepsy confirmed as autoimmune disease

 

[Thomas]

Does anyone know what "treatment" they used on the subjects that the Abstract makes reference to but does not specify?

 

[alex3619]

no consideration of possible cumulative adverse effects.

This is a BIG issue. Vaccines are tested for safety with respect to individuals, and typically adults. They are often not adequately tested on children, and almost never tested in combination or series. They are also not tested with a range of medical conditions that might alter the response. In other words. they are tested in isolation under a reductionist paradigm. The real world is not so simple.

Vaccines do save lives. They do prevent disability. Yet they are also not treated with the caution that is necessary in my view.

 

[Valentijn]

They are also not tested with a range of medical conditions that might alter the response.

Any idea if new flu vaccines are routinely tested on people with various chronic illnesses? Since that's the population which is usually recommended to get the vaccines.

 

[xchocoholic]

I had heard of ASIA syndrome but I'm not that familiar with it.

This is a useful overview of the concept (the suggested diagnostic criteria seem pretty vague to me) :

http://www.the-rheumatologist.org/d...SIA_A_New_Way_to_Put_the_Puzzle_Together.html

Thanks. X

 

[alex3619]

Any idea if new flu vaccines are routinely tested on people with various chronic illnesses? Since that's the population which is usually recommended to get the vaccines.

There might be exceptions, but I really doubt it. My understanding, which is now more than a decade out of date, is that healthy adults are the typical test subjects. So for a healthy person it might be fine, but what about those with immune disorders etc? They hope, they don't know for sure, that the benefits outweigh the risks for various comorbid disease subgroups.

 

[adreno]

The irony is that vaccines are routinely recommended for the immunocompromised.

 

[Christopher]

My mom told me I had a bad reaction to a vaccine as a baby, and she was not sure about giving me anymore. The doctors convinced her to continue, of course.

Then prior to college I was given more vaccines. Shortly after, I developed a tingling sensation all over my body and maybe a fever. Started feeling sick a year later and then crashed the next year correlating with mold exposure. I still get the tingling sensation.

 

[jimells]

They hope, they don't know for sure, that the benefits outweigh the risks for various comorbid disease subgroups.

Since the US has a special law protecting the vaccine companies from liablility, the benefits to them always outweigh the risks to us.

In Maine the state is currently financing a vaccination sales pitch on TV. Unlike every other drug advertisement, they don't list or even mention the possibility of adverse effects. Funny how those who make the laws manage to exempt themselves...

 

[alex3619]

The irony is that vaccines are routinely recommended for the immunocompromised.

I think this can be good advice, but there are a lot of caveats. First, many people with ME, and I presume other disorders, fail to seroconvert or lose seroconversion. This means the vaccine doesn't work or stops working. So there is risk and no benefit in these cases.

Second, while in regular age related or immunosuppression issues vaccines can help, its the variations and complications within patients that may change the story. Since such groups are often not involved in controlled trials then problems will be missed. Even if they are involved there are so many different ways the immune system can be compromised. Worse, these people are often taking many drugs. Is every drug combination tested with vaccines? No.

Vaccines are very much a holdout of the last big wave in medicine - standardized medicine. This principle is causing disaster in health systems, epitomized with improper use of Evidence Based Medicine.

The new wave is personalized medicine. Its only possible because of advances in sophisticated, cheap and rapid testing. In time doctors will no longer be guessing, they will be measuring instead.

 

[alex3619]

Since the US has a special law protecting the vaccine companies

Not just the US. Also, many countries have laws protecting doctors from large payouts in lawsuits, including Australia and the UK.

 

[Thomas]

In Canada, one cannot sue vaccine manufacturers and unlike the US, we (Canada) do not have special vaccine courts in which to make claims and ultimately seek damages for injuries.
I am still curious though what the treatment is that the Abstract of the article makes reference to but does not specify.

 

[mango]

very interesting to read, all of this!

I had the HBV vaccine in the same year I suddenly developed extreme morning fatigue. About a year later the health problems started which eventually ended in a CFS diagnosis.

this sounds very similar to my situation. the vaccine i had was twinrix (hepatitis a & b). my health problems started some months after that, got significantly worse a few months after the last shot of twinrix (12 months after the first three shots), and got much much worse after a few bad infections over the following couple of years.

And some of patients I have seen in this situation have unusual neurological symptoms/signs that are not characteristic of ME/CFS

i'd love to hear more about this too, please. neurological symptoms is a huge problem for me.

 

[Thomas]

very interesting to read, all of this!


this sounds very similar to my situation. the vaccine i had was twinrix (hepatitis a & b). my health problems started some months after that, got significantly worse a few months after the last shot of twinrix (12 months after the first three shots), and got much much worse after a few bad infections over the following couple of years.


i'd love to hear more about this too, please. neurological symptoms is a huge problem for me.

Same on the last paragraph

 

[adreno]

Add me to the list of people who's health deteriorated rapidly after receiving twinrix.