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Corticosteroids (Steroids) Such as Prednisone May Cause ME/CFS

Discussion in 'General Symptoms' started by Hip, Dec 13, 2013.

  1. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    ➤ How may ME/CFS patients here were given a course of corticosteroids (steroids, glucocorticoids) like prednisone or prednisolone when they were hit by an acute viral infection (perhaps causing a skin rash), and then developed ME/CFS soon after (a few weeks or months after)?


    In this video of a presentation given by Dr John Chia, he talks about the various factors and events his ME/CFS patients report when he investigates their clinical history prior to them developing ME/CFS.

    One factor that Dr Chia says he "hears hundreds of times" — a factor occurring just prior to a patient developing ME/CFS — is that the patient was given corticosteroids (steroids, glucocorticoids) like prednisone or prednisolone at a time when he was acutely ill, likely with an acute enterovirus infection.

    Thus in Dr Chia's experience, it seems that acute enterovirus infection + steroid drugs at the same time is a recipe for creating ME/CFS.

    If you watch this part of the video (at timecode 7:40), Dr Chia says the skin rash that may be caused by an acute enterovirus infection can look like chicken pox, measles, German measles, or hives.

    Dr Chia says that if, for example, people suddenly become ill and develop a skin rash from an acute enterovirus infection, they may go to the emergency room, and the emergency room doctor will look at the rash, and might suspect the rash to be hives, since enterovirus rashes can be identical to hives rashes.

    So the ER doctor will question the patient as to what he ate beforehand. If the patient just happened to eat some shellfish, then the ER doctor may assume that the patient's rash is indeed a hives rash, caused by allergy to the shellfish, and so will put the patient on a course of steroids, like prednisone or prednisolone, as this is the normal treatment for hives.

    So the patient has a fierce acute enterovirus infection, and needs a strong and robust immune response to fight off this infection, yet receives immunosuppressing corticosteroids, because the rash was diagnosed as hives, which is a disaster.

    Dr Chia says here on the video:
    So it appears that if you take immune suppressing drugs like corticosteroids at a very critical stage when the body is trying to fight off a fierce acute enterovirus infection, one presumes that these steroids may weaken the immune response to such a degree that the enterovirus is now able to get a much better foothold in the body tissues — ie, the virus may penetrate deeper into the body, penetrate into more tissue compartments of the body — and so this enterovirus infection is never eradicated, and it becomes a chronic, persistent infection, and the patient may then come down with ME/CFS a few weeks or months after.

    On a DVD I bought (this DVD at time 23:40) Dr Chia says:
    So this acute enterovirus infection + corticosteroids a very interesting possible etiology of ME/CFS.
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2013
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  2. cigana

    cigana Senior Member

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    I had gradual onset. I was given steroid eye drops for 2 weeks, a few months before becoming ill. It certainly didn't start at the same time, but I've often wondered if they played a role.
  3. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member

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    http://www.fasebj.org/content/16/1/61.full#sec-

    First, at the gene cluster level, our study shows a bidirectional action of GC, which are both immunostimulatory and immunosuppressive at the same time even for the inflammation cluster (12). They seemed to prime and enhance the innate immune response while repressing part of the adaptive immune response in a resting state.
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  4. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    Yes, i have been reading up on this of late and GC steroids increase neutrophil counts, this would help certain infections. Maybe it depends on the dose and the duration of treatment, maybe its the very high doses that is the issue. I think about 5mg of prednisone is equal to what our bodies make where when docs give prednisone its usually a much higher dose.

    It might not be related to this but i found interesting was that TNF alpha actually block cortisol receptor sites, this might explain how tnf is inflammatory as its blocking the bodies anti inflammatory mechanisms cortisol. Cortisol seems to be involved in alot of processes.
  5. Valentijn

    Valentijn Activity Level: 3

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    I had a couple courses of prednisone for presumed asthma, a month or two after I developed acute symptoms which (retrospectively) looked like bartonella.

    I'd had possible "ME lite" symptoms prior to that, with recurrent difficulties when undertaking step-aerobic classes and tae kwon do. I didn't get full blown ME symptoms until several years later.
  6. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    @Valentijn
    I guess that prednisone may have possibly been a factor in your development of ME/CFS, though Dr Chia mentions a timescale of a few weeks to a few months for ME/CFS to appear after prednisone was given during the acute phase of a suspected enterovirus infection.


    I think this corticosteroid etiology for ME/CFS that Dr Chia has observed may be quite similar to mold etiologies: if you are exposed to mold, this can suppress your antiviral Th1 immune response, 1 so if you were unfortunate enough to catch a ME/CFS-associated virus at the same time that you were exposed to mold, this virus will encounter a weakened immune system, and so again, the virus may be able to penetrate deeper into the body, and penetrate into more tissue compartments of the body, thus becoming a chronic, persistent infection that cannot be eradicated.

    So if you take an overview perspective of both the corticosteroid and mold etiologies, they point to this idea that ME/CFS is caused when an acute viral infection meets a temporarily weakened immune system, so that during the acute infection period, the virus is able to insinuate itself deeper into the body, creating a chronic infection, and then precipitating ME/CFS.

    If this idea is correct, then it could explain why some people develop ME/CFS from virus in circulation, but other people who catch the same virus do not: it just comes down to the fact that those who developed ME/CFS had some external factor such as corticosteroids or mold exposure that made their immune system weak at the moment the virus hit them.
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  7. Sherezade

    Sherezade Senior Member

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    I never thought about it, but now that you mention this, I remember having a really bad tendinitis in my knee and heel, five years ago. It was consequence of overtraining without proper warming before. When i went to the doctor he inyected me something to help with the inflammation, I'm not sure what it was, but now I'm suspecting it could have been corticoids. At that moment I didn't care because the pain was so terrible that the only thing i wanted is relief.

    It took me a couple of months to recover totally from the tendinitis. Then, three years ago, i fell sick with a giardiasis that affected not only me but to all my co workers for drinking contaminated water in the office. i received treatment and I recovered very fast from it, but now I wonder if these situations could have played a part in me getting this illness two years ago.
  8. physicsstudent13

    physicsstudent13 Senior Member

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    every so often I read on a forum of an asthma cure like spirulina and azithromycin, but I can't exhale after taking 6 weeks of azithromycin
    I've been on a lot of short/medium courses of prednisone for asthma and take symbicort regularly, does it damage your energy and adrenals? all my doctors are kind of conservative about prednisone and it can destroy your bones.
  9. xks201

    xks201 Senior Member

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    Quite interesting but I'm not sure I buy it. It's easy to say everyone gets CFS from corticosteroids but everyone basically is prescribed them nowadays at various times for various things. It's like saying oxygen causes CFS. lol


    If all of these viral stories were true then someone would have been cured by now with an anti viral. You hear tons of people saying they got temporary relief from one but that means nothing.
  10. Hip

    Hip Senior Member

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    I think you may have misread the above. Nobody is saying that ME/CFS arises purely from corticosteroids.

    What is being said is that if corticosteroids are given at precisely the few days that you happened to come down with an acute enterovirus infection, then this may possibly lead to ME/CFS.

    People have been put into near remission from ME/CFS for periods of 2 to 14 months by taking very potent antiviral treatments that target enteroviruses. If you look at the research done by Dr Chia using interferon treatment, you see that he was able to put ME/CFS into near remission for months. Unfortunately, after several months, the virus would slowly reinstate itself in the body, and the ME/CFS would return.

    If anyone were rich enough (and brave enough, because the side affects of interferon can be nasty) to take a course of interferon say once or twice a year, you would probably remain in remission. Interferon costs $15,000 per course of treatment.
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2013
  11. xks201

    xks201 Senior Member

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    Oh okay, well that makes sense as a possibility then.

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