Detection of Mycotoxins in Patients with CFS

[Valentijn]

@Akhess01 - A Herxheimer reaction is in response to spirochete bacteria (syphilis, lyme) dying off and releasing endotoxins. Hence the Herxheimer reaction is due to the nature of infection being killed, not the manner in which it is killed.

 

[detts]

@Akhess01 sound right on. I'm getting anxiety from the die-off, it's literally a physical feeling, like a big knot in my chest then coupled with feeling overwhelmed with regular tasks. I am *not* an anxious person, at all, never have been. One time after 3 days after the ampho B I have a huge anxiety attack, that started with a headache then muscle pain peaking with the anxiety attack. My doctor said that as the toxins cross the blood-brain barrier, your brain produces stress hormones in response, which then showed itself as an anxiety attack.

I know Brewer's new thing is not to worry about output, but I will definitely keep up on binders! Keeping on top of the CSM and especially charcoal was the only thing that took the anxiety away. And I completely understand, I'm juggling so many things for treatment right now. Also keeping on top of all my supplements can't hurt, either.

Speaking of which, it's ok to take CSM and charcoal at the same time? I thought it wasn't but someone here mentioned it and my doc wrote that on my script list.

Yes Skii my dr said to take them together and bentonite clay can be taken at same time too if you like. CSM has to be taken 90 mins away from other vits/meds so timing is an issue for me but I take all three binders in am and then pm.
I take 5 capsules bullet proof activated coconut charcoal, 1 tbs bentonite clay (liquid one) and 1 tsp CSM. Quite the cocktail....not!

I thought of another die off symptom I get - tachycardia.

 

[Soundthealarm21]

Yes Skii my dr said to take them together and bentonite clay can be taken at same time too if you like. CSM has to be taken 90 mins away from other vits/meds so timing is an issue for me but I take all three binders in am and then pm.
I take 5 capsules bullet proof activated coconut charcoal, 1 tbs bentonite clay (liquid one) and 1 tsp CSM. Quite the cocktail....not!

I thought of another die off symptom I get - tachycardia.

Geez i'm just doing the bentonite. I couldn't handle CSM it made me too sick, very dizzy and off balance and a constant nausea.

 

[Akhess01]

Skii-

Yes Skii my dr said to take them together and bentonite clay can be taken at same time too if you like. CSM has to be taken 90 mins away from other vits/meds so timing is an issue for me but I take all three binders in am and then pm.
I take 5 capsules bullet proof activated coconut charcoal, 1 tbs bentonite clay (liquid one) and 1 tsp CSM. Quite the cocktail....not!

I thought of another die off symptom I get - tachycardia.

Yep all 3 together. Pretty tasty lol

 

[Akhess01]

So regarding RTL- I just got my results in and they are shocking to me. In 2007 my trich level was 10.87 ppb which is absolutely insane. I just did a baseline for all three before starting the brewer protocol. Ochra at 1.43 which is considered negative, 0 for aflatoxin, and .65 for trich which is still considered positive. What is shocking to me is that my trich level is so low. I don't feel any better than I felt in 2007. I'm worried that mycotoxins are not the main culprit. Anyone else have a similar trich level and still feel bad? Technically I should be excited to have such a lower level than before but I'm not sure how to take the results. Thoughts?

 

[Akhess01]

So regarding RTL- I just got my results in and they are shocking to me. In 2007 my trich level was 10.87 ppb which is absolutely insane. I just did a baseline for all three before starting the brewer protocol. Ochra at 1.43 which is considered negative, 0 for aflatoxin, and .65 for trich which is still considered positive. What is shocking to me is that my trich level is so low. I don't feel any better than I felt in 2007. I'm worried that mycotoxins are not the main culprit. Anyone else have a similar trich level and still feel bad? Technically I should be excited to have such a lower level than before but I'm not sure how to take the results. Thoughts?

Additionally, in 2007 I had been out of the mold infested house for 3 years so I don't think the drop in level is a result of non-exposure.

 

[Akhess01]

@Akhess01 sound right on. I'm getting anxiety from the die-off, it's literally a physical feeling, like a big knot in my chest then coupled with feeling overwhelmed with regular tasks. I am *not* an anxious person, at all, never have been. One time after 3 days after the ampho B I have a huge anxiety attack, that started with a headache then muscle pain peaking with the anxiety attack. My doctor said that as the toxins cross the blood-brain barrier, your brain produces stress hormones in response, which then showed itself as an anxiety attack.

I know Brewer's new thing is not to worry about output, but I will definitely keep up on binders! Keeping on top of the CSM and especially charcoal was the only thing that took the anxiety away. And I completely understand, I'm juggling so many things for treatment right now. Also keeping on top of all my supplements can't hurt, either.

Speaking of which, it's ok to take CSM and charcoal at the same time? I thought it wasn't but someone here mentioned it and my doc wrote that on my script list.

Thanks Skii for sharing. How long has yours been going on? I just took 2 days off and no relief

 

[detts]

So regarding RTL- I just got my results in and they are shocking to me. In 2007 my trich level was 10.87 ppb which is absolutely insane. I just did a baseline for all three before starting the brewer protocol. Ochra at 1.43 which is considered negative, 0 for aflatoxin, and .65 for trich which is still considered positive. What is shocking to me is that my trich level is so low. I don't feel any better than I felt in 2007. I'm worried that mycotoxins are not the main culprit. Anyone else have a similar trich level and still feel bad? Technically I should be excited to have such a lower level than before but I'm not sure how to take the results. Thoughts?

I think your trich levels are still quite high although way lower than your previous amounts- wow that was so high. Mine are 0.88 and I was told that was very high. I still feel crappy some of the time ( cycles ) I can just handle the meds better now. People do seem to have co-infections along with the toxic mold issues though so we aren't just dealing with mold a lot of the time.

 

[Skiii]

New! Gordon Medical Associates interviews Dr. Brewer
http://www.gordonmedical.com/unrave...c-fatigue-new-research-with-dr-joseph-brewer/

Oh just checked it says it's coming tomorrow!

 

[Skiii]

By the way, I'll just confirm that the Nystatin is so much gentler than the Ampho. And it is still definitely working, as I have die-off symptoms. The Mupericin stings a little bit, but not too bad.

 

[waiting]

So regarding RTL- I just got my results in and they are shocking to me. In 2007 my trich level was 10.87 ppb which is absolutely insane. I just did a baseline for all three before starting the brewer protocol. Ochra at 1.43 which is considered negative, 0 for aflatoxin, and .65 for trich which is still considered positive. What is shocking to me is that my trich level is so low. I don't feel any better than I felt in 2007. I'm worried that mycotoxins are not the main culprit. Anyone else have a similar trich level and still feel bad? Technically I should be excited to have such a lower level than before but I'm not sure how to take the results. Thoughts?

The RTL mycotoxin levels can go up after saunas, for example, as the test is measuring what one excretes in one's urine. It would be expensive to redo the test, but an increase in levels is possible (and has been seen) following a sauna.

And, I agree, it's still a positive result, and so, still a worthy target for treatment & avoidance.

Did you bring belongings with you from the moldy place (clothes, furniture, paper files)? If so, you could still be exposed.

Also, with some experts estimating that 50% of buildings are water-damaged, you might want to rule out mold where you are living now. An ERMI test on the dust in your home could help identify that. If you're among the estimated 25% of the population sensitive to mold, then a new place with hidden mold could still be a source.

 

[Ifish]

My daughter and I were in to see Brewer a couple of weeks ago. We specifically were there to talk to him about our bacterial sinus infections that have been ongoing since August. The good news is that we now seem to be finally getting it under control, but it has been a significant set back.

We did talk some about his protocol for treating mold colonization. He emphasized the importance of staying consistant. Patients should treat every day or every other day for a minimum of 12 to 18 months. He had experimented with using Mupirocin but does not really feel it adds anything to the treatment. He had an interest in Mupirocin primarily as biofilm buster but it does not seem to be better than Chelating Px.

He now has his first patient in remission using atomized Nystantin, but he emphasized this was a relatively minor case.

So now his protocol is really simplified. Patients treat with Chelating Px and AmphoB. They swich to Nystantin instead of Ampho B if necessary. They reduce treatment if the die off is to great.

Brewer has written his paper and is now in the hands of a coauthor. He anticipated it will be published in the Toxins publication either in January or February 2015.

 

[Ifish]

New! Gordon Medical Associates interviews Dr. Brewer
http://www.gordonmedical.com/unrave...c-fatigue-new-research-with-dr-joseph-brewer/

Oh just checked it says it's coming tomorrow!

It is good he is getting the word out. I also came across some notes from his ILADS talk which can be found here:

http://www.betterhealthguy.com/ilads-2014

 

[boohealth]

The Toxins publication requires authors to pay, from what I recall, and has virtually no impact factor. In other words, it's not the greatest pub.

 

[Skiii]

Thanks for posting that write-up iFish. A few interesting tidbits- I didn't realize you could take too much Omega 3, and also if you take methylb12 and glutathione there's potential for your body to stop making them.

Who was it here that tested negative on the mycotoxin panel? This was written from Brewer's Q&A: "Negative test results in the urine mycotoxin testing could be that the person has a different mycotoxin than what can be tested for currently. - See more at: http://www.betterhealthguy.com/ilads-2014#sthash.63KqsBzp.dpuf"

 

[JCamp]

Thanks for posting that write-up iFish. A few interesting tidbits- I didn't realize you could take too much Omega 3, and also if you take methylb12 and glutathione there's potential for your body to stop making them.f"

That's concerning about methyl b12. I wonder what his source is for that. I just added large doses of it to my regimen ten days ago and have had horrible startup effects but also amazing immediate improvements in endurance, strength, cognition, and mood. Low doses don't cause an effect in me. I was hoping the methylation protocol would help the mold detox since I haven't seen any results yet from three months of daily Ampho b.

 

[Skiii]

FYI I just listened to the hour long interview with Brewer, and there really wasn't anything new. It was really more of an overview of what Brewer is doing for people who don't already know. They did talk a bit about colloidal silver at the end, if that's of interest to anyone. But I didn't really learn anything new.

 

[Soundthealarm21]

So regarding RTL- I just got my results in and they are shocking to me. In 2007 my trich level was 10.87 ppb which is absolutely insane. I just did a baseline for all three before starting the brewer protocol. Ochra at 1.43 which is considered negative, 0 for aflatoxin, and .65 for trich which is still considered positive. What is shocking to me is that my trich level is so low. I don't feel any better than I felt in 2007. I'm worried that mycotoxins are not the main culprit. Anyone else have a similar trich level and still feel bad? Technically I should be excited to have such a lower level than before but I'm not sure how to take the results. Thoughts?

.6 is not a low level FYI. When I was first tested I had a level of .68 and the highest it climbed was 2.01

So to answer your question yes I've felt horrible and had a level in that range.

 

[boohealth]

Just fyi I know of a story where someone was actually being exposed to pesticides from the soil vented improperly into their house from the crawl space, which was determined by an environemtnal building expert when he made a home visit. They had been tested for mycotoxins in urine and told it was mycotxoins. Maybe then went to Brewer for all I know. I find much of Brewer's work suspicious, from what I've read.

 

[waiting]

Just fyi I know of a story where someone was actually being exposed to pesticides from the soil vented improperly into their house from the crawl space, which was determined by an environemtnal building expert when he made a home visit. They had been tested for mycotoxins in urine and told it was mycotxoins. Maybe then went to Brewer for all I know. I find much of Brewer's work suspicious, from what I've read.

I'm guessing that if it was improperly vented *soil* that was entering their house, then the pesticides would certainly be one problem, but the soil itself could be another, carrying with it mold & mycotoxins....? The soil would surely act as a wick for moisture, therefore mold.