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GP 'very unusual to have ME so bad for so long'. Am i the only one?

Raines

Seize. Eggs. I don't know. Zebra. Eighties.
Messages
201
Location
UK
@MeSci
I'm sorry to hear how badly you've been treated by the medical system.

Are ATOS still involved in benefits? I thought they had lost the contract.

for a little longer at least, I think their contract is up next year.
I'm expected for a medical assessment (the fit for work one) first week of January.
trying to get a home visit - its simply far too far for me to travel.
 

Raines

Seize. Eggs. I don't know. Zebra. Eighties.
Messages
201
Location
UK
Good luck. The figures for getting granted benefit first time seem to have improved significantly. I seem to recall that they are more amenable to requests for home visits too. I can't remember where I read this though.

Its not my first time, its just been several years since i've been asked to attend a medical exam. I'm in the WARG at the moment (what a joke that is) at my last appointment at the job centre the guy looked me straight in the eye and said that it wasn't like he was asking me to run a marathon. he wanted me to agree to come back in 2 days and attend a day long course of confidence building and interview skills.
I told him it was like that, it seems that i constantly have to justify, explain and convince people of my illness.

The best part of the ATOS letter I got was the directions to the facility. its only 15 min walk from the station!!
 

Raines

Seize. Eggs. I don't know. Zebra. Eighties.
Messages
201
Location
UK
Well today I got a letter from ATOS agreeing to a home visit, no date on when yet, so at least thats something I can stop worrying about.


My current plan is

1.To get through Christmas and

2.To decided exactly what to ask my dr when I see him in January. Questions which will allow me to decided if he is likely to ever be of any help or not. (In wich case another change of drs - I must be firm about this - I deserve a dr that gets that ME/CFS is not just depression)

Short plan but its about all I can cope with.


Thank you everyone who has replied to my thread, I really apricate the support and your shared expertise.
 

MeSci

ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
Messages
8,231
Location
Cornwall, UK
Well today I got a letter from ATOS agreeing to a home visit, no date on when yet, so at least thats something I can stop worrying about.

My current plan is

1.To get through Christmas and

2.To decided exactly what to ask my dr when I see him in January. Questions which will allow me to decided if he is likely to ever be of any help or not. (In wich case another change of drs - I must be firm about this - I deserve a dr that gets that ME/CFS is not just depression)

Short plan but its about all I can cope with.

Thank you everyone who has replied to my thread, I really apricate the support and your shared expertise.

Sorry if it's already been suggested, but have you tried the NHS Service Locator to look at possible GP (and other) services?

This is the page I got when I put Haywards Heath into the search.

You can check out their ratings on their websites, but make sure to see how many people have rated them - if it's only one or two you might not be able to rely on them. Click around at the various options, check out both the ratings on the NHS locator pages and on the practice websites.

You might even find some ratings that mention ME/CFS (but I wouldn't bank on it!).

Glad you have a home assessment anyway. If there is someone you know who is understanding and sympathetic, maybe you can have them with you?

Write down important things you need to say, both at the doctor's and at the ATOS assessment, as it's so easy to forget things, especially when stressed.
 
Messages
37
Wow. Maybe you ought to find a doctor who is paying attention. I personally know more than 30 women who have been dealing with this for over 20 years, myself included. These are people I've met in person - not just online.
 

alex3619

Senior Member
Messages
13,810
Location
Logan, Queensland, Australia
It took me many years to lose faith almost completely in UK doctors.
I lost faith long ago, but it did take quite a lot of years. Now I play a game with new doctors. I watch to see how long it takes them to say something fallacious or inept. The batting average is about two minutes. My last one made it to five. A good doc rarely falls into these logical traps.

The problem is that many docs try to sell unfounded or problematic guesses, though educated guesses, as though they are sound. If they don't know, they generalize. If they suspect, they tell you with certainty. If they don't believe you they are prone to jump to conclusions, and act as though they trust their own infallibility.

Good docs avoid these things. They say "I don't know". They say "I suspect". They say "I don't know how I can help you". They say "It might be this so lets test for it" or "the best way to test for this is to put you on a short trial treatment". They look up the research on their computers, right in front of you. When they have time they check the literature for anything that might help their more problematic patients.

Doctors need to embrace uncertainty, and factor it into everything they do. Medicine is not a profession that typically lends itself to certainty. There are too many problems - complexity, wrong research, insufficient information, etc etc etc.
 

daisybell

Senior Member
Messages
1,613
Location
New Zealand
My rheumatologist said 'very good' to me last week, right after I told him that I had had to give up work and felt ill all the time.... Just because his concern was only about my CREST syndrome, which has not caused me much noticeable difficulty in years. So that's that, no more follow up because I'm stable/well! It's nuts.
 

MeSci

ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
Messages
8,231
Location
Cornwall, UK
My rheumatologist said 'very good' to me last week, right after I told him that I had had to give up work and felt ill all the time.... Just because his concern was only about my CREST syndrome, which has not caused me much noticeable difficulty in years. So that's that, no more follow up because I'm stable/well! It's nuts.

:aghhh:

How appallingly insensitive. Life in ruins = good! :aghhh: again.
 

Raines

Seize. Eggs. I don't know. Zebra. Eighties.
Messages
201
Location
UK
Sorry if it's already been suggested, but have you tried the NHS Service Locator to look at possible GP (and other) services?

thanks for this link - my GP surgery has good would refer percentage but only 2 stars. interestingly its one of the lowest one locally - another good reason to change practices

Glad you have a home assessment anyway. If there is someone you know who is understanding and sympathetic, maybe you can have them with you?

Write down important things you need to say, both at the doctor's and at the ATOS assessment, as it's so easy to forget things, especially when stressed.

yes, will make sure to have someone with me, and lots of notes - its something I've come to accept, must take a load of information to any appointments and make notes afterwards, dam brain fog

Good docs avoid these things. They say "I don't know". They say "I suspect". They say "I don't know how I can help you". They say "It might be this so lets test for it" or "the best way to test for this is to put you on a short trial treatment". They look up the research on their computers, right in front of you. When they have time they check the literature for anything that might help their more problematic patients.

when I asked this dr about some supplements he said I don't know, I cant advise you to try them or not to try them. I liked this answer it was honest. However when I was explaining the need for a dr who believed that I have ME which causes the depression and not depression which causes the ME he asked my why I wanted to know what he believed to be the cause of my sypmtoms, what difference would it make. he also never answered just said he had no reason to disbelieve my symptoms.
I thought maybe I could educate my dr - I don't dislike him - but think it may be a lost cause

My rheumatologist said 'very good' to me last week, right after I told him that I had had to give up work and felt ill all the time.... Just because his concern was only about my CREST syndrome, which has not caused me much noticeable difficulty in years. So that's that, no more follow up because I'm stable/well! It's nuts.

I don't know what to say daisybell, I'm just speechless
 
Messages
8
There's been a campaign by insurance companies to cheat ME patients out of disability benefits by pretending it's a mental disease. I suspect that's why your MD said that. The cause of ME is unknown but it's related to breakdown of the mitochondria that make most of the cell's energy. That's where the fatigue comes from. It makes sense that unless ways are found to stop the causes of the destruction or perhaps lessen the problem then the fatigue will stick around.
 

Debbie23

Senior Member
Messages
137
I got told that it wasn't normal to collapse so suddenly as in suddenly be unable to stand and walk, with ME, and I got told that seizures definitely didn't happen with ME. This is why it important Imo to share common experience. Those things are scary enough when you have someone telling you they aren't a normal part of an already scary disease it gets terrifying real quick. This is what I mean about this site being so important on the 'what has helped you' thread. I always used to doubt to be in denial. I know here that I fit. Not just with the common experiences shared here but with the ICC and CCC symptoms and therefore my own gut instinct is right not wrong about resting, pacing not pushing too hard etc. Don't get me wrong it's not that you want to hear that other people are poorly, but knowing you aren't alone you aren't isolated in your experience, helps.

As for getting better, I know people who've gotten significantly better but I know people like me who are coasting at a fairly consistent level of illness and don't seem as though we will progress beyond that without appropriate medical intervention of whatever kind is required. Albeit their severity is less than mine but in terms of hitting a limit on what they can achieve as 'recovery' seems to be the same even if it's at different points on the scale. I think for most of us there is a glass ceiling we can reach until the underlying problems, whatever they are, can be resolved.

I was reading the diaries my mum kept when I was first ill, not to dwell but to organise information as to what meds I've tried etc. And my ME now looks much the same now as it did then. In some ways it's better in some ways it's worse, but overall it's largely the same. The earliest she kept those books is June 2001 but she makes note that before I became so severely ill, as in using a wheelchair, bedbound etc. I was already having the symptoms. It's not easy reading to see that things haven't really changed in all that time, but I'm also trying to come to a place of acceptance and as painful as it is it's helping.

I agree that I don't think a lot of doctors know about ME, especially at the severest end. I've been lucky in that while I've not had a doctor who really understands, I've had doctors willing to listen and learn. My current GP and OT for example are lovely, we have to move this summer and I'm dreading the process of trying to find another who are at least willing to listen and learn as these have. I'm dreading moving, largely as a result of loosing lovely medical care. I'm not dreading where we are going, it looks amazing there and the people are truly lovely I'm looking forward to actually being there. But I'm dreading the process of moving, it's a HUGE move and finding doctors who aren't as supportive and kind as the ones we've had here is a really, really scary prospect. :(

That's not to say I haven't had bad experiences, I've had my fair share too! I saw a rheumatologist for example after by GP referred me after an increase in pain, tramadol was barely touching it, and based on inflammation in blood tests. He was rude, dismissive and patronising in a way that upset me so much it put me off seeing even my own lovely GP for the better part of a year. I still have no idea what was going on with the blood tests because he didn't address them even once and I felt so small that I didn't feel I could bring it up because he made it clear he wasn't interested. He closed by saying I could 'say I have fibromyalgia as well' if I want, whatever that means, I have no idea. Fiasco would be how I summed up that experience.

I did ask to be referred to the local ME clinic then found out it looked like it was ran very clearly around CBT and GET so changed my mind and felt very embarrassed that I'd ask for a referral. I think I'm just going to hope for a nice GP when we move and leave it there.

Edited for typos and because my reading comprehension is poor today so I didn't write things very clearly! Hopefully it's better now!
 
Last edited:

Raines

Seize. Eggs. I don't know. Zebra. Eighties.
Messages
201
Location
UK
Don't get me wrong it's not that you want to hear that other people are poorly, but knowing you aren't alone you aren't isolated in your experience, helps.
I know what you mean, and I feel the same.

I did ask to be referred to the local ME clinic then found out it looked like it was ran very clearly around CBT and GET so changed my mind and felt very embarrassed that I'd ask for a referral.
I have a referral in motion (if that makes sense) to my local ME clinic, I don't hold out much hope.
But several family members are so thrilled about it, and are convinced it will be staffed by kind and wonderful experts who will do tests and recommend treatments.
I hope they are right, but I expect it to be just NHS bog standard CBT and GET.
 

Debbie23

Senior Member
Messages
137
What's that saying? Plan for the worst, hope for best! I hope you get the best. :)

I think that as much as its a journey for us it's a journey for our families and those who love us too.

Thank you for the good wishes, I can't pretend I'm not finding the thought very overwhelming! I want to move, the place is lovely, the people are lovely....I just wish I could take my GP with me, lol!
 

Valentijn

Senior Member
Messages
15,786
I have a referral in motion (if that makes sense) to my local ME clinic, I don't hold out much hope.

But several family members are so thrilled about it, and are convinced it will be staffed by kind and wonderful experts who will do tests and recommend treatments.

I hope they are right, but I expect it to be just NHS bog standard CBT and GET.
Don't hesitate to ask them very directly about blood tests (especially infections and inflammatory markers), referrals to the appropriate specialists for neurological symptoms, OI, cardiac symptoms, or whatever other odd issues should be investigated and/or ruled out as being caused by other diseases, and medical treatments on offer for symptoms such as pain, sleep, gut issues, OI, etc.

And I dare say it could be interesting to ask the therapists involved if they believe there is a biological cause for ongoing symptoms. Psychosomatic-based practitioners will usually lie or dodge the question, but might squirm a bit in the process :D And if they won't investigate or try to treat OI (they often will treat pain and sleep), or if they interfere with any attempt to get referrals or necessary mobility assistance (wheelchair) or social benefits, that's another definite sign that you're wasting your time and energy with them.