Gondwanaland
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- 5,094
Personally I can't tolerate vit C. I listen to my body and if a supplement makes me feel worse I don't take it.
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Heavy Brain fog and energy fluctuation - history of depression and anxiety
- Thread starter Santino
- Start date
Hey,
I would appreciate if Vitamin C would give me diarrhe, because most times I am constipated no matter what I do about it...
But Vitamin C does no give me diarrhe, but unfortunately I cannot tolerate vitamin C because exactly the same symptoms come up, which already came with Quercetine (it is not the magnesium stearate, as this is also in other supps which I can tolerate well). I tried pure ascorbic powder and also calcium ascorbat. First time I took 5g of Vitamin C ascorbic powder with no bowel issues. But it triggered the histamine like symptoms...
So there are many beneficial supps which lead to this symptoms in my case:
Tumeric, Quercetine, Vitamin C and NAC.
Yesterday I was eating out and pepperoni triggered the symptoms again...
@Gondwanaland:
It is impossible that Vitamin C is bad for us. But it seems that it triggers something which makes us feel so bad, that we cannot take it. But what the hell is going on there?! Maybe it triggers detoxification?
But as I said: Some medication like Modafinil or Cialis/Levitra trigger the same symptoms. They are not antioxidants. So it is really crazy and no doctor can help me with this. I just can avoid all these substances. I even tried to ignore there symptoms but this lead to heavy sickness. So I won´t do this again...
I really have no idea what to do. Everything which should be good for people with autoimmune diseases triggers these symptoms.
I can try Lithium but I don´t think that this will be THE key nutrient which makes everything ok. With a bit luck, I have better mood with this but I cannot expect more of it.
I want to find a good method to look for heavy metal toxification in my body (I have no hair growth, so no hair analysis possible). So I look for a method to diagnose and to thread heavy metall exposure in the hope that this could be a key point.
Do you have any good idea? (I do not looking for methods which just seem to function because of placebo effects as these never worked in my case...). I found a doctor who worked with bicom therapy but when searching for this I always found that this impossible to function...Many holistic doctors in Germany work with methods which failed to deliver evidence in what they claimed to be able to.
My bowl symptoms and mood are little more stable last 2-3 weeks. But it is stable at a low energy-, low drive/motivation- and light- (serotonin deficient) depressive state. But really light. Before the ketogenic diet I had to cry often for no reason or I felt heavy guilt or sadness for no reason. This all is really better. But better means not good enough. I have too less energy, no libido, no motivation and still slight feeling of sadness/guilt. Everything is fluctuation over a day. So I am never the hole say slightly sad. But I am most times low energy and maybe 1-2 hours full with good energy. 1 hour sad, 1 hour normal, 1 hour sad, 1 hour normal. The best I can achieve is light happyness for a few minutes...
A year ago (when my digestive system wordked better) I used to take a little tryptophan and went running. This helped a lot.
But taking tryptophan makes me feel worse now (bowel and psychic). As if I cannot digest it or it is digest to something bad. Maybe 5-htp would be the solution?!
Next steps:
- taking Lithium 5-10mg as soon as it arrives (will be in 1-2 weeks)
- Taking Cod-liver Oil for getting Vitamin A and D (starting tomorrow)
- Taking Vitamin K2 (starting next week as soon as it arrives)
- Taking niacine (maybe tomorrow- i have to be careful as it triggered mania in some bipolar patients)
- after I know that I tolerate niacine I can try metafolin/methylcobalamin again because Dr. Lynch says that niacin can work against the side effects of overmethylation.
- Taking small amounts of lactulose everyday as a prebiotic (I don´t tolerate Bimuno, it triggers histamine like symptoms, Inulin triggers depression and dizzyness)Maybe lactulose also helps with my constipation
I would appreciate if Vitamin C would give me diarrhe, because most times I am constipated no matter what I do about it...
But Vitamin C does no give me diarrhe, but unfortunately I cannot tolerate vitamin C because exactly the same symptoms come up, which already came with Quercetine (it is not the magnesium stearate, as this is also in other supps which I can tolerate well). I tried pure ascorbic powder and also calcium ascorbat. First time I took 5g of Vitamin C ascorbic powder with no bowel issues. But it triggered the histamine like symptoms...
So there are many beneficial supps which lead to this symptoms in my case:
Tumeric, Quercetine, Vitamin C and NAC.
Yesterday I was eating out and pepperoni triggered the symptoms again...
@Gondwanaland:
It is impossible that Vitamin C is bad for us. But it seems that it triggers something which makes us feel so bad, that we cannot take it. But what the hell is going on there?! Maybe it triggers detoxification?
But as I said: Some medication like Modafinil or Cialis/Levitra trigger the same symptoms. They are not antioxidants. So it is really crazy and no doctor can help me with this. I just can avoid all these substances. I even tried to ignore there symptoms but this lead to heavy sickness. So I won´t do this again...
I really have no idea what to do. Everything which should be good for people with autoimmune diseases triggers these symptoms.
I can try Lithium but I don´t think that this will be THE key nutrient which makes everything ok. With a bit luck, I have better mood with this but I cannot expect more of it.
I want to find a good method to look for heavy metal toxification in my body (I have no hair growth, so no hair analysis possible). So I look for a method to diagnose and to thread heavy metall exposure in the hope that this could be a key point.
Do you have any good idea? (I do not looking for methods which just seem to function because of placebo effects as these never worked in my case...). I found a doctor who worked with bicom therapy but when searching for this I always found that this impossible to function...Many holistic doctors in Germany work with methods which failed to deliver evidence in what they claimed to be able to.
My bowl symptoms and mood are little more stable last 2-3 weeks. But it is stable at a low energy-, low drive/motivation- and light- (serotonin deficient) depressive state. But really light. Before the ketogenic diet I had to cry often for no reason or I felt heavy guilt or sadness for no reason. This all is really better. But better means not good enough. I have too less energy, no libido, no motivation and still slight feeling of sadness/guilt. Everything is fluctuation over a day. So I am never the hole say slightly sad. But I am most times low energy and maybe 1-2 hours full with good energy. 1 hour sad, 1 hour normal, 1 hour sad, 1 hour normal. The best I can achieve is light happyness for a few minutes...
A year ago (when my digestive system wordked better) I used to take a little tryptophan and went running. This helped a lot.
But taking tryptophan makes me feel worse now (bowel and psychic). As if I cannot digest it or it is digest to something bad. Maybe 5-htp would be the solution?!
Next steps:
- taking Lithium 5-10mg as soon as it arrives (will be in 1-2 weeks)
- Taking Cod-liver Oil for getting Vitamin A and D (starting tomorrow)
- Taking Vitamin K2 (starting next week as soon as it arrives)
- Taking niacine (maybe tomorrow- i have to be careful as it triggered mania in some bipolar patients)
- after I know that I tolerate niacine I can try metafolin/methylcobalamin again because Dr. Lynch says that niacin can work against the side effects of overmethylation.
- Taking small amounts of lactulose everyday as a prebiotic (I don´t tolerate Bimuno, it triggers histamine like symptoms, Inulin triggers depression and dizzyness)Maybe lactulose also helps with my constipation
Last edited:
Gondwanaland
Senior Member
- Messages
- 5,094
I feel that as it is an immunostimulant it overdrives the autoimmune reaction in people with autoimmune diseases (my case).
I don´t think so...
I don´t think that this is a overstimulation of the immune system. I think that this is kind of detoxification symptom. The alternative is, that it is an immune reaction to the subtance itself or something coming free because of the intake.
But after all I researched about Vitamin C, I think it is impossible what you suggest...
I feel like Vitamin C trigger toxins coming free or something like bactria to be attacked where my body cannot get rid of these subtances and that triggers my symptoms.
Of course this just a hypothesis, but I again: I cannot agree with your hypothesis.
I just read the protocol of Rich v K. I would like to try the methylation protocol but the multi they advise contains Vitamin C, NAC and many subtances which are foreign to my body. I think this would trigger the symptoms again...
The question is: Are these symptoms detox symptoms which I must go through in maybe 2-3 weeks?! Or is it an allergic like reaction which never would fade away and which just will get worse or which makes everything worse?!
I see you also did genetic testing. Did you have succes while using methylation cycle supports?
I don´t think that this is a overstimulation of the immune system. I think that this is kind of detoxification symptom. The alternative is, that it is an immune reaction to the subtance itself or something coming free because of the intake.
But after all I researched about Vitamin C, I think it is impossible what you suggest...
I feel like Vitamin C trigger toxins coming free or something like bactria to be attacked where my body cannot get rid of these subtances and that triggers my symptoms.
Of course this just a hypothesis, but I again: I cannot agree with your hypothesis.
I just read the protocol of Rich v K. I would like to try the methylation protocol but the multi they advise contains Vitamin C, NAC and many subtances which are foreign to my body. I think this would trigger the symptoms again...
The question is: Are these symptoms detox symptoms which I must go through in maybe 2-3 weeks?! Or is it an allergic like reaction which never would fade away and which just will get worse or which makes everything worse?!
I see you also did genetic testing. Did you have succes while using methylation cycle supports?
Gondwanaland
Senior Member
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- 5,094
Please don't ask me this question. I did it all wrong. Read the documents attached to caledonia's signature before starting any protocol. Ahmo also compiled a useful guide to Freddd's protocol and attached it to her signature.
What does this mean? You could not achieve good results with any protocol? How do you try it if you have to avoid Vitamin C, as it is part of every protocol and is needed to build up Gluthathione?
I looked at the protocol of Rich van Ko.. This seems easy to do, so I think I would try this one. But before I start with something like this I need to know how to deal with the symptoms (just ignore and try tiny amounts?!?!)
Because there is 60mg of Vitamin C in it or some mg of NAC etc...
I looked at the protocol of Rich van Ko.. This seems easy to do, so I think I would try this one. But before I start with something like this I need to know how to deal with the symptoms (just ignore and try tiny amounts?!?!)
Because there is 60mg of Vitamin C in it or some mg of NAC etc...
Gondwanaland
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- 5,094
Exactly.
After supporting the thyroid, I found that I can tolerate small amounts of it - up to 200mg daily - if I take mixed salts (Mg + Na + K + Ca ascorbate), but haven't retried any protocol since.
Gondwanaland
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Brain fog like electricity beheind the eyes and swelling of the throat like if there is a lump of air in there.
Sherlock
Boswellia for lungs and MC stabllizing
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Have you seen this thead?
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/ascorbic-acid-worsening-candida.27868/
thank you. No I did not. But it is "unfortunately" not the case for me.
Because:
1. With now more than 6 stool analyses, they never found any sign of candida or other parasites.
2. There are many other substances which cause exactly the same symptoms.
3. Ascorbic acid is actually very good to fight candida as Dr. Levy lays out in my youtube video and you can find this also from out other sources.
4. I live on a ketogenic diet for more than 2 months now. Would be difficult for candida to grow, as I eat less then 30 carbs a day and never sugar...
But thank you for trying to help me out!
Because:
1. With now more than 6 stool analyses, they never found any sign of candida or other parasites.
2. There are many other substances which cause exactly the same symptoms.
3. Ascorbic acid is actually very good to fight candida as Dr. Levy lays out in my youtube video and you can find this also from out other sources.
4. I live on a ketogenic diet for more than 2 months now. Would be difficult for candida to grow, as I eat less then 30 carbs a day and never sugar...
But thank you for trying to help me out!
Sherlock
Boswellia for lungs and MC stabllizing
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Sorry, I was not concentrating and had not read your earlier page where you'd said that you have reactions to many things. That sounds something like atopy to food.
Have you considered leaky gut? When the intestines have increased permeability, then large molecules can enter the bloodstream where they usually cannot do so. Those molecules then get recognized as invaders and you get allergy-like immune system responses - including histamine release.
E.g., I am sensitive to whey protein when I have leaky gut, but not otherwise.
Glutamine is commonly used to help to repair leaky gut.
Have you considered leaky gut? When the intestines have increased permeability, then large molecules can enter the bloodstream where they usually cannot do so. Those molecules then get recognized as invaders and you get allergy-like immune system responses - including histamine release.
E.g., I am sensitive to whey protein when I have leaky gut, but not otherwise.
Glutamine is commonly used to help to repair leaky gut.
Gondwanaland
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My feeling is that vit C stimulates the thyroid and this is not good in autoimmune thyroiditys. That said, if having Hashimoto's, one should eat carbs.
My thyroid is ok.
But new research suggets that the decrease in thyroid hormone when carbs are restricted is functional.
Low thyroid slows everything down, but there is no research, that is really bad for your body. When you have high thyroid everything goes faster. You build up proteins faster, but oyu also break them down at the same rate. Newer studies about fasting and low carb diets suggest that higher thyroid is related to faster aging.
As long someone is living e.g. ketogenic, low thyroid is functional (as long as T4 stays high). But this low thyroid should shift as soon as you eat carbs.
My thyroid levels were always fine. Since living ketogenic I did not test them, but they should be lower. Though I don´t feel any signs of low thyroid.
Again: I don´t think that Vitamin C has functions which are not functional to the body (as long as taken in individual optimal doses). Especially in chronic sick people who are (many orthomolecular doctors say) mostly deficient in Vitamin C. When getting vitamin C again, a not optimal functioning cell starts functioning more optimal. That can trigger detox or can give you more energy which in some cases trigger anxiety when they mentally connect energy rising symptoms with anxiety.
Dave Asprey suggest to take Vitamin C in the morning, because it´s a stimulating Vitamin and it can give you energy, which you don´t want to experience when you go to bed.
I think I had leaky gut. But I did a lot to solve that (avoid trigger, taking probiotics). But I think leaky gut is nothing you have to care about when taking vitamin C or other physiological substances. Vitamin C should help as it is antiviral and antibiotic...I can tolerate protein and peptids well but Glutamin triggers symptoms and I think L-tryptophan isn´t good digested anymore since ca. one year...
best regards.
But new research suggets that the decrease in thyroid hormone when carbs are restricted is functional.
Low thyroid slows everything down, but there is no research, that is really bad for your body. When you have high thyroid everything goes faster. You build up proteins faster, but oyu also break them down at the same rate. Newer studies about fasting and low carb diets suggest that higher thyroid is related to faster aging.
As long someone is living e.g. ketogenic, low thyroid is functional (as long as T4 stays high). But this low thyroid should shift as soon as you eat carbs.
My thyroid levels were always fine. Since living ketogenic I did not test them, but they should be lower. Though I don´t feel any signs of low thyroid.
Again: I don´t think that Vitamin C has functions which are not functional to the body (as long as taken in individual optimal doses). Especially in chronic sick people who are (many orthomolecular doctors say) mostly deficient in Vitamin C. When getting vitamin C again, a not optimal functioning cell starts functioning more optimal. That can trigger detox or can give you more energy which in some cases trigger anxiety when they mentally connect energy rising symptoms with anxiety.
Dave Asprey suggest to take Vitamin C in the morning, because it´s a stimulating Vitamin and it can give you energy, which you don´t want to experience when you go to bed.
I think I had leaky gut. But I did a lot to solve that (avoid trigger, taking probiotics). But I think leaky gut is nothing you have to care about when taking vitamin C or other physiological substances. Vitamin C should help as it is antiviral and antibiotic...I can tolerate protein and peptids well but Glutamin triggers symptoms and I think L-tryptophan isn´t good digested anymore since ca. one year...
best regards.
Gondwanaland
Senior Member
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- 5,094
Glutamine is immunostimulant. It promotes proliferation of red and white blood cells.
Tryptophan can trigger serotonin syndrome
Ketogenic diet isn't beneficial for everyone or all of the time
I suggest you try C salts
Buy pH strips to check urine and saliva at home
Have a nice week!
Tryptophan can trigger serotonin syndrome
Ketogenic diet isn't beneficial for everyone or all of the time
I suggest you try C salts
Buy pH strips to check urine and saliva at home
Have a nice week!
No diet is beneficial for everyone everytime. Everbody has to find their own, especially when having some mutation like cbs or bhmt I think. But also the methylation pathway in general. Chris Kresser suggests that this could be one of the causes of histamine intolerance which I have...
I don´t mean serotinin syndrome symptoms. I mean bowel issues. U cannot get serotonin syndrome from 500mg Tryptophan (of course I take no antodepressants, tha would be another case).
I have PH strips. I have optimal ph levels. Sometimes a bit to alkalic but thats really seldom.
I don´t mean serotinin syndrome symptoms. I mean bowel issues. U cannot get serotonin syndrome from 500mg Tryptophan (of course I take no antodepressants, tha would be another case).
I have PH strips. I have optimal ph levels. Sometimes a bit to alkalic but thats really seldom.
Sherlock
Boswellia for lungs and MC stabllizing
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The fog I had was almost always after consuming sugar - which stirred up candida or some organism which behaves like candida.
Btw, vit C eradicates h pylori in some people - maybe it also kills other microbes? [I see you have mentioned vit C as being antimicrobial already]
Eur J Cancer Prev. 1998 Dec;7(6):449-54.
Effects of high dose vitamin C treatment on Helicobacter pylori infection and total vitamin C concentration in gastric juice.
This study has shown that 4 weeks daily high dose vitamin C treatment in H. pylori infected patients with chronic gastritis resulted in apparent H. pylori eradication in 30% of those treated.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9926292
Quercetin has some antimicrobial activity
Maybe you are getting Herxheimer reactions? If so, you seem to be lucky in that whatever you have is very easy to kill.
Maybe your diet works somewhat because it is low carb and you are starving some microbe.
-----------------------------
edit: I do know that vit C is now talked about as being only preventive against H Pylori:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3229773/
"Vitamin-C as anti-Helicobacter pylori agent: More prophylactic than curative- Critical review" 2011
Sticking with the theme that your problems are all originating in the gut: glutamine is the primary fuel used by enterocytes.Why would that result in your symptoms? I don't know.
Btw, vit C eradicates h pylori in some people - maybe it also kills other microbes? [I see you have mentioned vit C as being antimicrobial already]
Eur J Cancer Prev. 1998 Dec;7(6):449-54.
Effects of high dose vitamin C treatment on Helicobacter pylori infection and total vitamin C concentration in gastric juice.
This study has shown that 4 weeks daily high dose vitamin C treatment in H. pylori infected patients with chronic gastritis resulted in apparent H. pylori eradication in 30% of those treated.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9926292
Quercetin has some antimicrobial activity
Maybe you are getting Herxheimer reactions? If so, you seem to be lucky in that whatever you have is very easy to kill.
Maybe your diet works somewhat because it is low carb and you are starving some microbe.
-----------------------------
edit: I do know that vit C is now talked about as being only preventive against H Pylori:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3229773/
"Vitamin-C as anti-Helicobacter pylori agent: More prophylactic than curative- Critical review" 2011
Last edited:
Gondwanaland
Senior Member
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- 5,094
I get serotonin syndrome from 30mg 5-HTP
I really have no idea why I react this way.
I also thought about herxheimer reaction. But what about all the medications or supplements which are no antivirals or antimicrobes like Cialis, Modafinil, Levitra and many others? It´s so frustrating to not find any answer to this which can be replicated with my findings...
I just tried Vitamin K2.
I notice a slight allergic reaction, but am not 100%sure. Would have to provocate with higher amounts to go for sure.
I notice that in this product there is silicon Dioxide in this product and Di-calcium-phosphate...
Can one be sensitive/intolerant/have allergic reaction to silicon dioxide or calcium-di-phosphat?
@Gondwanaland:
Tryptophan is not the same as 5-HTP. When taking Tryptophan, the blood levels of Tryptophan raise relatively to other amino acids, which leads to a stimulation of natural serotonin production. There is much evidence about Tryptophan and this effect and there was never a case serotinin syndrome. The only thing noticed was the possibility of a relatively dopamine deficiency when used longer time.
When you took any antidepressants, it´s another situation and any serotonin-hightening thing can cause serotonin-syndrome.
With 5-htp I have no experience and also I did not dive deep in literature, but if you experienced serotonine-syndrome while not taking antidepressants, it seems to be possible with this...
Best regargs
I also thought about herxheimer reaction. But what about all the medications or supplements which are no antivirals or antimicrobes like Cialis, Modafinil, Levitra and many others? It´s so frustrating to not find any answer to this which can be replicated with my findings...
I just tried Vitamin K2.
I notice a slight allergic reaction, but am not 100%sure. Would have to provocate with higher amounts to go for sure.
I notice that in this product there is silicon Dioxide in this product and Di-calcium-phosphate...
Can one be sensitive/intolerant/have allergic reaction to silicon dioxide or calcium-di-phosphat?
@Gondwanaland:
Tryptophan is not the same as 5-HTP. When taking Tryptophan, the blood levels of Tryptophan raise relatively to other amino acids, which leads to a stimulation of natural serotonin production. There is much evidence about Tryptophan and this effect and there was never a case serotinin syndrome. The only thing noticed was the possibility of a relatively dopamine deficiency when used longer time.
When you took any antidepressants, it´s another situation and any serotonin-hightening thing can cause serotonin-syndrome.
With 5-htp I have no experience and also I did not dive deep in literature, but if you experienced serotonine-syndrome while not taking antidepressants, it seems to be possible with this...
Best regargs
Last edited:
Gondwanaland
Senior Member
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- 5,094
Aminoacid supplementation raises my uric acid and I can't tolerate that.