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High Dosage methylfolate users

Johnmac

Johnmac

Senior Member
Messages
756
Location
Cambodia
I take 400mcg Metafolin 4 times daily, as part of the DQ & backup supps. There have been some nice gains in 2-3 weeks - the main ones being that fatigue & brainfog are gone. Should I increase the metafolin dose? Or leave good enough alone? I don't have any large remaining symptoms, tho I would always be happy with more energy, better cognition, etc.

My strongest reaction is to AdbCbl. I feel a little groggy on the day I take it, and usually sleep an extra hour that night. The whole of the next day I am groggy. (Then fine again after that.) What might that suggest?

Thanks to all.
 
Leon

Leon

Messages
65
Interesting tread, but, frankly, I have no idea what to do for better or worse.

I'm COMT ++, and all methyl donors hit me hard, so I've introduced HyCbl for now, 500mcg in the morning with 100mcg MTHF. It's hit me hard, for whatever reason. I've not been able to stop peeing, and I've become increasingly run-down, with flu-like symptoms. In the night, I could hardly swallow, and it's not much different now. I'm hoarse and my throat, legs, back, everything is inflamed. I'm going to have to stop taking them today; but now I don't know if I should push through with even more MTHF. It's counterintuitive, however. I have the added issue of being on HyCbl with the MTRR++ gene, which doesn't convert to MCbl very well, so there's a nagging doubt that I may not have enough MCbl. I'm in a real tight spot as to what to do for the better.

Really could use some advice at this point. I feel dreadful :thumbdown:
 
whodathunkit

whodathunkit

Senior Member
Messages
1,160
@Leon: up to you what you decide to do. Depends on the person, what they're willing to endure while they're figuring out which is the best course for them.

But pushing methylfolate helped me get over the flu-like symptoms more quickly. Increasing methylcobalamin may also be helpful for you. It helped me.

I do not know my snps. I don't want to at this point. So I can't tell you anything relative to snps as far as what helped me.

But again, what you do is up to you. Choose a course, and then give it enough time to work, or not. Don't jump around every couple of days with a new strategy.

A week should be sufficient to see improvement with whatever you decided to do. You may not be completely better, but improvement is key. If no improvement or worse after seven days, then consider trying another tack.

Good luck.
 
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K

Kim C

Messages
23
Hi everyone!
I just posted on the pyroluria thread a whole long story about what has been happening to me. Suffice to say we are all so very different! I don't know my snps either other than compound hetero mthfr. And as @whodathunkit mentioned, I don't really want to know as it seems many of us have to find our own way regardless. As much as I hate flying by the seat of my pants, I have had to do just that and have hit more than a few bumpy spots! But I am gaining ground! I hope this also for all of you!

The latest endeavor has included, with my nutritionists help, the lowering of methylfolate to no more than 800 mcg. I do feel better than when on the higher dose of 4800-5000 mcg. She felt the high dose was draining my other nutrients, which seemed to be supported by Nutreval testing. She does seem to have quite a lot of experience in dealing with mthfr. I am relying on her help now to get things in better balance.

Not sure how to give the link to the other thread for those who wish to read the whole long story. But just posted today under Pyroluria.
Sorry for my computer illiteracy.
:) Kim C
 
Johnmac

Johnmac

Senior Member
Messages
756
Location
Cambodia
Those ratios are interesting Ahmo.

I also had the sense that sublingual m-folate roughly halves the dose.

Pardon my ignorance, but how do you know that m-folate absorbs transdermally (footbaths)?
 
ahmo

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
how do you know that m-folate absorbs transdermally (footbaths)?
Click to expand...
1) Because I've been successfully putting many of my other supps in FB for over a year.
2) I self-test, ask body if this is working
3) No symptoms of deficiency, which I get easily when I'm deficient. that's how I found I needed to go up to 8mg when I thought with this sublingual I might get by w/ 7mg. Nope, pretty immediate hair loss, acne. Now, 8mg, w/ PM dose in FB, no deficiency sx.:)
 
K

Kim C

Messages
23
howirecovered said:
One possible issue with high folate supplementation that I'm looking at now is whether or not it could contribute to a thiamine deficiency - http://forums.phoenixrising.me/index.php?threads/is-folate-inhibiting-thiamine-b-1.23392/ particularly for people who have SLC19A1 flaws as I do (TheSLC19A1gene encodes a transporter involved in folate and thiamine uptake).
Click to expand...

Wow @howirecovered, this is interesting because on my last Nutreval, when supplementing about 5 mg of methylfolate my b1 went to flatline, in spite of adding an extra 50 mg daily over and above what was already in my multi TD. Guess it ended up in the potty! I have always been a good veggie eater, and my b1 has always tested low even when not supplemented. I have significant neuropathy but not diabetes.

I am now rethinking my folate intake overall, as I feel better after having dropped my methylfolate to 400 mcg. Actually, for the last few days I have skipped my multi altogether and feel fine with plenty of energy. I am taking New Chapter food based multi though. These are small doses and all from food, no synthetics.

My neuropathy has improved a lot since I increased my zinc and b6, but something is still not quite right so nutritionist and I are working it out. My recent blood work showed zinc above the range but I was taking mega doses. So now we have lowered zinc to 75 mg to see how that goes. She is trying to find my level of need and is treating suspected pyroluria, although I honestly believe that it is more likely a stress response that keeps dumping my zinc.

Thanks for posting this link... Very helpful! :)
 
howirecovered

howirecovered

Senior Member
Messages
167
ahmo said:
My latest status update: After chasing reasons for adrenal stress over a couple weeks, I've now dropped my folate further, to 5mg. So taking it sublingually has < my need from 15mg to 5mg. :woot: Happier body and bank balance.:thumbsup:
Click to expand...

The first time I took mfolate, I did it sublingually also and got in trouble quickly. I've been taking it for a year orally now but you've reminded me that instead of increasing my dose, I could just do one of them sublingually. Would certainly save money!
 
S

sregan

Senior Member
Messages
703
Location
Southeast
From the quote below it seems that LCF is the key ingredient to "healing". What what I understand is that people should ramp up somewhat on MCBL, MFolate and ACBL. Then start adding LCF at some point. Freddd mentions microtitration for those who get anxiety from LCF. It seems that you can take as much MFolate as you want but until you have a satisfactory amount of LCF you're not going to really start the healing processes. Is this a valid statement? Is this the experience of those of you who have ramped up?

So let’s consider what carnitine does. First, some people have to have LCF, about 90% of us here with these for whom it makes a difference. About 10% have to have ALCAR. It transports fats to mitochondria. It, by demonstration on me and others, causes proliferation of mitochondria in conjunction with the other 3 items. It causes muscles to grow back. It causes osteoblast proliferation strengthening bone. It cause neuroblast formation, encouraging neuronal healing and growth. These are essential to healing and causes demands on Methylfolate and potassium as it encourages new cells to grow as well as more mitochondrial density producing more ATP.
Click to expand...
 
ahmo

ahmo

Senior Member
Messages
4,805
Location
Northcoast NSW, Australia
@sregan
confused-3316.gif
Don't know how it worked for me.
 
Johnmac

Johnmac

Senior Member
Messages
756
Location
Cambodia
I don't know.

But LCF is by far the most potent of the DQs for me.

If I have the right dosage (i.e. very little) it is activating/energising, and my psoriasis disappears. If I have too much I have a meltdown and can't function (anxiety, profound discombobulation).

After my last crash, the anxiety component hung around for a month. It was a very bad month. Finally I asked Freddd what was going on, and he said it may be the LCF causing my potassium to be used up in higher quantities - and to increase K supplementation. I did, and the anxiety disappeared.

Yep, he also said to keep the dose at the level I can handle, and to spread it over 2 to 3 doses per day. He emphasised that he wasn't saying to increase the dose (for the moment), but to spread the same dose through the day.

Doesn't answer your question, though I have seen Freddd posts saying that all the DQs are dependent on each other - i.e. most people need all 4.

And a couple of tidbits that might be useful to someone.
 
aturtles

aturtles

Senior Member
Messages
129
Location
Seattle, WA
sregan said:
From the quote below it seems that LCF is the key ingredient to "healing". What what I understand is that people should ramp up somewhat on MCBL, MFolate and ACBL. Then start adding LCF at some point. Freddd mentions microtitration for those who get anxiety from LCF. It seems that you can take as much MFolate as you want but until you have a satisfactory amount of LCF you're not going to really start the healing processes. Is this a valid statement? Is this the experience of those of you who have ramped up?
Click to expand...

No, that was not my experience. I was taking L-MTHFL for weeks before I even discovered this forum and Freddd's posts. My healing began on L-MTHFL alone, though I would call it both rocky and weak compared to the full Deadlock Quartet & co-factors. (For more details on my ramp-up, see
http://forums.phoenixrising.me/inde...mfolate-mb12-need-guidance.33368/#post-516647)

In short, @sregan , the Deadlock Quartet is called that because all the parts are essential. Each person may have different supplements that they in particular need in different amounts. Blocking factors may not be the same. Bodies are complicated.

As for anxiety and LCF, I didn't find this at all the case. I had some stomach distress at higher doses of LCF, and had to titrate up because of that, but LCF did not change my anxiety levels.
 
dannybex

dannybex

Senior Member
Messages
3,564
Location
Seattle
caledonia said:
Has anybody here tried methionine as a substitute or in addition to taking methylfolate + B12? Methionine is the byproduct of those two combined. It may be a useful bypass for those having a lot of trouble getting the right folate + B12 ratio.

SAMe, which is the next thing downstream from methionine could also possibly be helpful.
Click to expand...

Uh, what? :)

Hi @caledonia ,

I thought SAMe was the byproduct of methionine and b12?
 
H

heyitisjustin

Senior Member
Messages
162
whodathunkit said:
Hey @stridor, been meaning to post about this but have been trying to figure a few more things out first. Thanks for giving me a nudge.

I'm inferring from this that maybe those big doses of mB12 "topped me out", so to speak, and my body let me know about it.
Click to expand...

How did you feel with too much B12? I have sleep problems if I take B12 post noon (I use the lotion which takes hour supposedly lasts 8 hours). My notes say methylation can increase adrenaline... perhaps this was what was happening to me.

Was your experience different?
 
whodathunkit

whodathunkit

Senior Member
Messages
1,160
Actually, mB12 made me feel WONDERFUL the first time I injected it. Never got the same buzz off of sublingual.

But it was after adding methylfolate and the other stuff that I started having insomnia, getting wired out, anxious, etc. But those sides went away as I continued and my health improved.

These supplements can change the physiology so much I have no idea why they cause the symptoms they do. Adrenaline is as good an explanation as any, based on what I know right now. I might have known once, but don't any more. :lol:

I definitely learned not to take them together after about 1p in the afternoon, at least when I was starting out. After a year or so timing of any of it (folate, B12, LCF, P5P, etc.) no longer matter, but in the beginning I would get so revved up if I took them late in the day that it messed my sleep up badly.

Interestingly, after a few months of injecting high-dose mB12 it started making me sleepy. That happens to people, too. That only lasted a couple of months though. Weird.
 
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