I think I got over-methylated?!!! Need help!

[Sushi]

@ahmo I watched the video but didn't follow the concept or what it had to do with methylation or dosing amounts. Is there a second one or did I just not get it?!!!

It has to do with how to calculate what dose suits you. So you might ask the question, "Is 200 mcgs of folate the best dose for me?"

Sushi

 

[caledonia]

@ahmo I watched the video but didn't follow the concept or what it had to do with methylation or dosing amounts. Is there a second one or did I just not get it?!!!

In the video she explains how to tell if a substance is good or bad. Basically your body is giving you a yes or no answer. You can use the same method to ask if a certain amount of a substance is good or bad.

So you could say "is 200mcg of folate good"? Let's say you get a "no" response
then you can ask "more than 200mcg of folate?" and "less than 200 mcg of folate"?

Let's say "less than 200 mcg" gets a "yes", and "more than 200 mcg" gets a "no". Then you can ask with lower and lower amounts until you get a "yes".

It's like playing 20 Questions if you're familiar with that game.

 

[ahmo]

@ahmo I watched the video but didn't follow the concept or what it had to do with methylation or dosing amounts. Is there a second one or did I just not get it?!!!

It's about asking your body re what you're dosing. It might not be so easy w/ a vial of injectable. but overall, you'll be well-served to add this tool to documenting your symptoms as you progress through not only a methylation protocol, but any supplements you add in the future. Asking about foods, supps, environment, whatever it is. It offers a way of getting feedback that's not dependent on your mind or another person. cheers, ahmo

 

[Gingergrrl]

@caledonia, @ahmo, and @Sushi I'm so sorry and I know I must be bugging the absolute crapola out of you guys but am still confused!!! :thumbdown:

Re: the video, do you mean that you hold the amount of folate (200 mcg for example) or B-12 vial in your hand when you ask the question or do you just ask the question randomly? Also, someone once mentioned to me re: holding supplements in your arm like a pendulum but I also didn't quite grasp it. Are these two concepts the same thing or two totally different things? Is "Self testing" the same as when I hear the term "Muscle testing" or is that a third different concept?

You could add up the weekly total of methylfolate and work it that way.

200 mcg of methylfolate per day x 7 days is 1400mcg of methylfolate per week. 1400 x 3 = 4200 1400 x 5 = 7000

So that would be 4200 to 7000 mcg of B12 per week. Divided by 3 days = 1400 to 2333mcg of B12 on each of the three days.

Re: the ratio amounts, in the final calculation, do you mean that I would take 200 mcg of Folate per day and then 1.4 to 2.3 mg/ml of B-12 per shot (with 3x/wk shots?) I just want to make sure I understood the final amount. Once I can switch to daily sublingual B-12, it will be easier to calculate. My Dr endorses VERY high doses of the methylation supps and now that I know I need to start lower, I am trying to gather as much info as I can. Thank you again in advance!

ETA- If I did daily B-12 shots, would the ratio be 200 mcg folate to 1 mg B-12 (approx?) I will run out of needles sooner this way but is this better so I will have both supplements on a daily basis to work in conjunction? I am just trying to grasp the ratios and mechanics of it and not trying to get anyone to advise me what dose to take (which I know that only I can decide!)

 

[ahmo]

HI ginger.

Is "Self testing" the same as when I hear the term "Muscle testing" or is that a third different concept?

Yes, same concept. There are a number of ways to contact the body's own intelligence. The vid demonstrates a form of muscle testing. Pendulum may well work equally well. I've pendled in the past for emotional issues.I've also use craniosacral rhythm, and the method I use contacts the rhythm of the lymph system. Each organ in the body has it's own rhythm

Not trying to confuse, but to emphasize that there are many opportunities to achieve a feedback system with the body. The only trick, after choosing a method, is to build up confidence over time. I learned the method I use just as I was falling into ME. I was well acquainted w/ body rhythms as a bodyworker. I'd had less success w/ muscle testing, but I had no reason to practice it at that time. Now, with all the supps and diet changes I've been making, I've had plenty of practice and established a rapport I trust. In May I had a very tricky passage thru intense detox. I relied on what the body was telling me, and made it through.

When I was actively increasing my B12 and folate levels, the folate deficiency signs and symptoms became pretty obvious. But I had no way of observing B12 needs. So whenever I increased folate I asked body if it also wanted more B12. Eventually I arrived at the dosages I use today.

I've dound that the real limitation becomes in asking the right questions. If I can't formulate, or don't have enough understanding to ask about, some factor, then body can't respond.

So, in using the method in the vid, you'd initially be starting by contacting the supp about which you're asking the question. You use one or more of the fingers of either hand contacting the supp. Or place it on your body, eg. leg...
I tend to just ask about the supp by name.

I'm not able to comment on injectable, I have no experience. Re ratios, you might check in the pdf attached to my signature. Fred talks about ratios toward the beginning of that doc. I just kept inching forward until my deficiency symptoms (folate) stopped, and body has not requested any changes since then.

BTW, a cautionary warning. I'd gotten up to 25mg folate, maybe 30mg B12. The need to increase, per skin symptoms, had decreased to about once a week, but it seemed to be going on forever. It eventuated that my vegetable intake was blocking the folate. That's why I had to keep raising my doses. I didn't twig until my adrenals started complaining, I started looking for reasons why. I dramatically cut my green veg intake, which is what pushed the intense detox I mentioned above. Some of us, I think related to MTHFR, can't use the veg form of folate, folinic, and in fact it blocks the assimilation of Mfolate.My need went from 25mg/day to 15mg/day. Still high, but significantly easier on my budget, and body.

 

[Sherpa]

Hi @Gingergrrl I too experienced overmethylation once I worked up to 400mcg methylfolate perday. The reaction was not as severe as yours. I mostly got insomnia and acid reflux (from being wired / nervous). The cycle keeps "cranking" after supplements are stopped. Niacin helped some. I now recognize how powerful these supplements are. I am going to "dry out" and start again at much, much lower doses (like 80 or 160mcg folate).

 

[Hip]

@Gingergrrl

A daily dose of 7 mg of vitamin B12 by injection is a very high dose. If you look at these ME/CFS doctors' protocols for B12 injections, you see that most use doses in the range 1 to 3 mg, and these are only given once every two or three days.

I would not be surprised if your symptoms came from having too much B12.

I started to feel wired, agitated, jittery and shakey. I was typing at computer and got sudden headache, felt like I could throw up (but didn't) and my HR went up to 140 bpm.

It's possible you were experiencing hypokalemia, which can occur with B12 injections. The symptoms of hypokalemia are:

A small drop in potassium level often does not cause symptoms. Or symptoms may be mild and include:

• Abnormal heart rhythms (dysrhythmias), especially in people with heart disease
• Constipation
• Feeling of skipped heart beats or palpitations
• Fatigue
• Muscle damage
• Muscle weakness or spasms
• Tingling or numbness

A large drop in potassium level may slow your heartbeat. This can cause you to feel lightheaded or faint. A very low potassium level can even cause your heart to stop.

Soure: here.

Although this does not quite fit, because hypokalemia causes slow heart rate, but yours was fast.

 

[Avalon]

Hi @Gingergrrl I too experienced overmethylation once I worked up to 400mcg methylfolate perday. The reaction was not as severe as yours. I mostly got insomnia and acid reflux (from being wired / nervous). The cycle keeps "cranking" after supplements are stopped. Niacin helped some. I now recognize how powerful these supplements are. I am going to "dry out" and start again at much, much lower doses (like 80 or 160mcg folate).

@Sherpa

Sherpa, My insomina became worse, nasal congestion and my acid reflux(LPR) worsened on increasing mfolate. I now realise I have to be very careful with supplementation, as you have said it is powerful stuff. I am concerned that effectively by supplementation we are governing the rate of methylation, abit akin to when I supplemented with pregnenolone, cortisol etc. This takes control away from the body and you body processes become like a 'runaway train' with no brakes!!. The brake happens when you body runs outs of co-factors, or you have an incorrect balance of supplements, I'm now leaning toward Rich Vanks protocol, were he cited that we need to let the body control the rate of conversion by using supplement such as HydroxyB12. This is something I am looking at and whether in the light of my snp's I can move to his protocol.