Iodine protocol and B12

[richarduklon]

Hi there,

I'm still researching for my friend with ME and they are taking most of the B12 protocol of b12 and B vitamins.
She wants to also try iodine and asked me to look into the iodine protocol, taking lugol's iodine @ 2%.

I've read some conflicting information about taking iodine at the same time as Vitamin C (have decided to advise taking it separately to the iodine) but I was wondering if iodine would have any affect with B12.

I'm trying to work out the timing of taking this. I was thinking of advising taking the iodine in the morning and the Vitamin C in the afternoon. With the B12, do you think it would be ok to take it at the same time as the iodine, or should a gap be left between them?

I couldn’t fine any thing much about any interaction between B12 and iodine, so any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks

Richard

 

[whodathunkit]

Richard, iodine is something you need to be really careful with, especially if you're trying to help someone with ME/CFS.

I LOVE iodine. One of my favorite things. I was on very large doses for quite a while, and now am on the standard 12.5 mg/day. I won't ever be without it again. It helped me a great deal and without the boost I got from iodine I may not have been able to tolerate the side effects from kick-starting methylation. Both physically and mentally, I believe iodine helped prepare me to implement I learned when I hit PR.

But I had to chelate and do some detox protocol for several months before I was able to tolerate iodine. When I first tried it, it gave me anxiety, insomnia, polyuria, and a variety of other symptoms related to the detox it can precipitate. It's been a few years since i went through this so can't remember everything very clearly.

Also to consider is whether or not the person you're helping has mercury fillings. Iodine can precipitate a very potent detox in mercury toxic people. Mercury detox can include very intense unpleasant mental and neurological side effects. Iodine gets blamed for these side effects (hence the belief of many mainstream medical professionals that it's dangerous) when in fact it's the mercury and other toxins that iodine flushes out that are responsible for the side effects. I had a bad time with iodine at first, and I wasn't even particularly mercury toxic. I haven't had any mercury fillings for over 20 years.

B12 is also considered to be an agent that "stirs up" mercury in the body. Giving both at once to someone who hasn't chelated properly might not be a great idea.

Don't know if you've considered this or not, but throwing it out there for you in case you haven't. Be very wary when starting someone else on iodine, especially if you have no first-hand experience with it yourself.

However, if the person isn't mercury toxic and/or has chelated properly to prepare, giving both of them together should present no problems. I've had overall great experiences with both, and no trouble mixing the two.

Please keep in mind I'm not an expert. Just got a lot of first-hand experience with both iodine and B12. Hopefully someone with more experience will chime in.

 

[richarduklon]

Richard, iodine is something you need to be really careful with, especially if you're trying to help someone with ME/CFS.

I LOVE iodine. One of my favorite things. I was on very large doses for quite a while, and now am on the standard 12.5 mg/day. I won't ever be without it again. It helped me a great deal and without the boost I got from iodine I may not have been able to tolerate the side effects from kick-starting methylation. Both physically and mentally, I believe iodine helped prepare me to implement I learned when I hit PR.

But I had to chelate and do some detox protocol for several months before I was able to tolerate iodine. When I first tried it, it gave me anxiety, insomnia, polyuria, and a variety of other symptoms related to the detox it can precipitate. It's been a few years since i went through this so can't remember everything very clearly.

Also to consider is whether or not the person you're helping has mercury fillings. Iodine can precipitate a very potent detox in mercury toxic people. Mercury detox can include very intense unpleasant mental and neurological side effects. Iodine gets blamed for these side effects (hence the belief of many mainstream medical professionals that it's dangerous) when in fact it's the mercury and other toxins that iodine flushes out that are responsible for the side effects. I had a bad time with iodine at first, and I wasn't even particularly mercury toxic. I haven't had any mercury fillings for over 20 years.

B12 is also considered to be an agent that "stirs up" mercury in the body. Giving both at once to someone who hasn't chelated properly might not be a great idea.

Don't know if you've considered this or not, but throwing it out there for you in case you haven't. Be very wary when starting someone else on iodine, especially if you have no first-hand experience with it yourself.

However, if the person isn't mercury toxic and/or has chelated properly to prepare, giving both of them together should present no problems. I've had overall great experiences with both, and no trouble mixing the two.

Please keep in mind I'm not an expert. Just got a lot of first-hand experience with both iodine and B12. Hopefully someone with more experience will chime in.

Hi thanks for the reply.

I had some personal experience of taking iodine (50mg), so Ive had some experience but no major detox (aside from a headache and some pins and needles), however I don't have ME and just been asked to look into it for them.

They are not into taking mega doses of things, but I do take onboard your warnings.
Could you recommend what you did when you had detox issues, it would be useful to know for reference and if they encounter any detox when starting on very a low dose.

I'm aware of salt loading to assist with dealing with detox.

Did you take any vitamin C, selenium and ATP co-factors with the iodine.

Thanks
Richard

 

[whodathunkit]

@richarduklon: it sounds like you already have quite a bit of background on iodine so thanks for letting me know that. I wasn't trying to be condescending, only was worried because I've heard of cases where people actually developed psychosis after using iodine, and had to be institutionalized until the episode cleared. Again, the iodine gets blamed, but in reality it's other things, because otherwise it would happen to more people, and/or not go away when proper measures were taken.

Yes, I did take co-factors to alleviate side effects from iodine. Important ones are:

• SALT : salt loading helped me tremendously with iodine sides. #1 thing to address sides from iodine. My understanding is that iodine can flush bromide and mercury and other toxic minerals from the thyroid and tissues. Salt helps these toxins to be excreted properly.
• Water: stay hydrated. Put salt in the water for "loading". But stay hydrated. Increased water intake doesn't send you to the bathroom as much as you might expect. After an initial adjustment period, output goes back to normal even though water intake is still increased.
  
• MAGNESIUM : extra, if already using it and sides develop
• Selenium : I 400mcg in divided doses while on iodine
• Vitamin C: at least 2000mg/day in divided doses. I like liposomal vitamin C. I've gotten a lot out of it.

I also kept some chelating agents in my regimen for a while after starting iodine, as a prophylactic measure. Things I did that are supposed to chelate mercury are high-dose alpha lipoic acid (controversial, read up on it before advising), and topical cilantro extract at pulse points. That's what I can remember off the top of my head although I think there were a couple more things. My advice is to do some research on chelating/detoxing mercury. Sides from iodine seem to be remarkably similar.

HTH a little bit.

 

[Tammy]

I wouldn't take the iodine every day. I would take minimal dose and pulse it. I take it periodically ........and when I do take it......it's usually 4 days on......3 days off........and then after about a month of this cycle..........I don't take it for a couple of weeks and then start again.

 

[aquariusgirl]

Got horribly sick the couple of times I experimented with iodine.....suspect I am mercury toxic ....it was baaaaaad

 

[whodathunkit]

@aquariusgirl: it could be bromide toxicity, too. Bromide is in the same family of elements as iodine, and it can occupy the same receptors in the thyroid as iodine is supposed to. When you have too much bromide and not enough iodine in your system, this is what happens. Bromide is used in most commercial baked goods and bread to help with the quality of the crust and consistency. Its supposed to keep crust from splitting, or something like that, and with the "mouth feel". I can't remember exactly right now. Point is, it's everywhere, and it's not good for us.

When you add iodine to your system and it starts to do its job pushing the bromide out of where it's hiding (thyroid prefers iodine), you can get sick from that, too.

"Pulsing" (the kind of dosing that @Tammy said she does) is another strategy that might help you if you want to try with iodine again. Pulsing can be a bit easier on the body. I pulse some of the things I chelate with, for example. Not iodine, but EDTA, DMSA, stuff like that.

Plus the salt loading, magnesium , selenium, etc., really do help with the iodine sides.

But, like I said, I got pretty sick from it when I first started, too. So I can definitely relate. Whether or not to attempt it again is a very personal decision. I had to clean myself up pretty good, and very deliberately, for several months.before I was comfy trying it again. It was a lot of work but it was a good pay off. Iodine did really help with my subjective energy levels and my actual, objective lab levels of thyroid hormone (TSH went way down, which was very good).

 

[Coolie]

I just hope that when this thread is dead and buried it doesn't encourage people who find it in the future to simply take liquid Iodine which is poisonous. Although I'm sure the posters above mean well, it's not clear they are talking about specially formulated supplements, so this is for health and safety.

 

[richarduklon]

I just hope that when this thread is dead and buried it doesn't encourage people who find it in the future to simply take liquid Iodine which is poisonous. Although I'm sure the posters above mean well, it's not clear they are talking about specially formulated supplements, so this is for health and safety.

Hi,

While my opening post mentioned the iodine protocol and Lugol's iodine which has been used by lots of people...

http://www.drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/Iodine_-_what_is_the_correct_daily_dose?

And if people are looking at the Iodine protocol then you need to see what supporting supplements are needed:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IzFKo-r2-Nn8_z0KUrOhHdlanzSuhkuV3QO03XF6YTY/edit#

It must be stressed that there are several forms of iodine which some are poisonous and deadly. High doses can also cause toxicity


Links of studies of toxicity:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lugol's_iodine#Toxicity

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/infocenter/minerals/iodine/

http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/a?dbs+hsdb:@term+@DOCNO+34

Symptoms of an Iodine Overdose:

http://www.globalhealingcenter.com/natural-health/symptoms-of-iodine-overdose/

 

[whodathunkit]

I just hope that when this thread is dead and buried it doesn't encourage people who find it in the future to simply take liquid Iodine which is poisonous. Although I'm sure the posters above mean well, it's not clear they are talking about specially formulated supplements, so this is for health and safety.

This statement is PATENTLY FALSE. Misleading statements like this scare people off of what is a safe, essential, and effective mineral. I'm sure @Coolie "means well" (that is, he's not being deliberately misleading) when he says this, but in reality he's the one who doesn't know what he's talking about. Buying into mainstream dogma about alternative therapies never did anyone any favors, let alone people on this board.

That said, as noted above, iodine can make people sick if they don't approach it right. It made me sick until I detoxed properly. It's very important to start low and go slow with iodine, and to educate yourself and research how to ameliorate symptoms. Anyone trying iodine may (like me) also need to detox and back off before trying again if there is a bad reaction. Iodine stirs up other metals/minerals in the body (mercury, bromide, fluoride, etc.) so when these become liberated from tissues and begin circulating in the bloodstream before being excreted by various routes of elimination, a person can get very ill. Some small segment of the population may be too full of these toxins to ever use iodine...it may not possible for them to detox enough to ever tolerate it. Side effects from taking iodine can be bad. But again, it's not the iodine that's poison...it's the stuff iodine is mobilizing in the body that is causing the problem.

In fact, rather than poison, iodine is an essential mineral that we fall ill and die when we don't get enough of it.

Also, iodine is one of the best protectors against radioactivity, especially protecting our delicate thyroids.

It's such poison that the U.S. Federal government wants to have 14 million doses ready to go in case of emergency
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportu...35272c80ad292aeb9d1ba7&tab=core&tabmode=list&

If iodine were poison I'd probably be dead, as I was taking 100mg/day of super-super saturated iodine (20mg/drop) for nearly a year. But instead of dying, it just made me feel better. After I detoxed, I experienced nothing but good from iodine. I'm still taking it every day, although at a much reduced dosage. I reduced the dose because the large dose, while not harming me, wasn't doing what I wanted it to do (I was using it for a specific health condition), so it was a useless expense to keep the dose that high.

Further, the health improvements I've experienced in the last 4-5 years started precisely when I began exploring how to use iodine. Recovering my health has been an ongoing journey, with many different supplements and therapies playing a valuable part. Iodine was my starting point and still is a foundational supplement for me.

Some "poison", huh?

P.S. I've never used any special type or formulation of iodine. Just your garden variety stuff that anyone can buy over the counter. Right now I'm using Lugol's 5% liquid or the same potassium iodide tabs the government ordered in the link above, which are available to everyone, without prescription. The liquid has the added advantage of being able to use it to disinfect any cuts I get. I pop a few drops in my juice and one on my cut. Bada-bing! Instant health!

Is that "clear" enough?

 

[ahmo]

However, people w/ Hashimoto's and other autoimmune issues should approach iodine cautiously I have to avoid it altogether, even small amounts provoke outbreaks.
http://drknews.com/some-studies-on-iodine-and-autoimmune-thyroid-disease/

 

[whodathunkit]

@ahmo: right, absolutely. And I totally respect that. I hope in all my posts above the need for caution and making yourself knowledgeable came across. I also hope it came across that I recognize some people may not be able to take it, for whatever reason.

But it really yanks my chain when people who obviously don't know what they're talking about come around and make blanket statements about iodine like it's total poison for everyone. Plus, they condescendingly dismiss other people's posts by saying they "mean well" even if they're hopelessly misinformed. I mean, really.

Iodine. Is. Not. Poison.

It's an essential mineral we need to stay alive.

And to say it's poison needlessly scares a lot of uniformed people who might actually be helped by it.

 

[Coolie]

Do you sell iodine by any chance? It sounds like I really hit a raw nerve lol. I've got no interest in you or your vested interest in iodine. Elemental iodine is poison - fact. I was making a friendly warning to people who may miss judge doses, based on the fact that "liquid iodine" is being mentioned. NOT SUPPLEMENTS. If you google "Lugol's Iodine" you will be taken on the internet to bottles of dangerous liquid iodine in bottles, enough to kill you with one sip. I am not going to waste my time discussing this, with such a rude and unfriendly member.

1 gram will kill you, that's sufficient to have the skull and cross bones on the bottle.

 

[whodathunkit]

@Coolie: do *you* work for a pharmaceutical company or government agency, by chance? Or maybe the AMA? Is that why you're so intent on scaring people off this valuable alternative therapy?

BTW, I don't really think you are a mainstream schill. Just trying to underscore the incredible silliness of your statement implying I might sell iodine.

But hell, I wish I did. I would have made a *fortune* after Fukishima, even without the price gouging most vendors perpetrated. And the prices *still* haven't gone down to pre-Fukishima levels.

Anyway: links please, to the horrific bottles of iodine that can "kill you with one sip"? I'm really interested in seeing that. Honestly, I've never found one, and I've been all over the internet shopping for the best price and quality on all concentrations of Lugol's, especially since the prices went up.

Please know this: as long as you're not busy scaring people needlessly, we'll get a long just fine. You'll find I'm pretty friendly when people aren't parroting scare-mongering mainstream medical dogma about supplements I know to work, and work well.

 

[Coolie]

Here a material data safety sheet Iodine - POISON, just one of many examples I can post:
http://www.fishersci.in/msds/Iodine.pdf

 

[whodathunkit]

LOL. MSDS. Nice try.

LOTS of things are poison if you take too much of them. Alcohol will kill you if you take too much at one time. But a single glass of wine is a wonderful thing and good for your health. Post a link to the MSDS for ethanol, and let's see what *that* one says.

You mention "sipping" iodine. But iodine isn't made for chugging. Or even chugging's poor cousin, sipping. You take it *by the drop*, and every single iodine protocol or recommendation I've ever seen on the internet makes that abundantly clear. And the number of drops you need goes down as the iodine concentration in your solution goes up.

However, I can take a whole teaspoon (i.e., about a sip) of Lugol's 5% in a single dose with no ill effects. Go figure that. Not that I do that any more...there is no point to such a big dose, and it certainly doesn't taste very good. But again, what a poison!

Also, please note I never said iodine was completely without side effects and that everyone should take it willy-nilly with no thought for dosage. My main message is that you need to educate yourself and go cautiously. I believe I also said the decision to take iodine was a personal one and that it's not for every one. Did you bother to read what anyone in this thread actually wrote, or are you just intent on scaring people away from something you've heard about but apparently have no personal experience with?

At any rate, if you're not intellectually honest enough to recognize and acknowledge that there is a difference of degree between dosages that can heal or cause harm, I can't help you. Much as I'd like to, I just can't.

 

[Freddd]

Kelp tablets contain 15mg of iodine per tablet in a safe food supplement item. And are plenty cheap in large bottles. These are made to be consumed.

 

[whodathunkit]

@Freddd: FWIW, I never got the same response from kelp tabs as I do from iodine. I tried kelp way back in the day, when I was still under the sway of mainstream dogma and believed iodine was "poison", only to be used on open wounds where none of it could possibly be absorbed into my body.

Seriously, I know some people like kelp, but it just never seemed to get the job done for me.

I've also seen discussions on other boards about potential contamination of the kelp beds by pollutants in the ocean, and also lately about potential contamination from the Fukishima accident. If I was a kelp user I don't know what I'd make of it, but it's worth considering. My understanding is that most kelp comes from beds around Japan and China. If I'm misinformed about that I hope someone will correct me.

 

[Freddd]

Potassium iodide is given as protector against fallout containing radioactive iodine damaging the thyroid. I have no argument about iodine. I was merely offering variations. Good luck.

 

[whodathunkit]

Yeah, no, I was just looking at my last post to amend. I wasn't meaning to say kelp didn't work or that it was bad. I most definitely don't think it's bad or ineffective. Just offering info to consider. Like I said, I know a lot of people who use it and not iodine. It's just not as good for me.