Just asking for a little help to get started

[Gondwanaland]

@Gondwanaland So, guessing that the Deadlock Quartet = mb12, adb12, methylfolate aaaaand? niacin?

L-Carnitine Fumarate

I see you've still got homework to do

 

[ahmo]

@ahmo In your guide Solgar MethylFolate 800mcg is reccomended. Is that the same as this one: http://bigvits.co.uk/product.asp?pid=229&bid=27. It says Folic Acid on the description, and I though perhaps that may not be the right kind??

Yes, this is folate. Why on earth they still label these things 'folic acid'...

Deadlock Quartet: Mfolate, MB12, AdB12, LCF (L-carnitine fumarate). For some, Acetyl L-Carnitine works better, for me only the fumarate form did the job. ...oh, didn't see the response above, already answered...

 

[optimist]

I see you've still got homework to do

I'll put my signature on that

Why on earth they still label these things 'folic acid'...

To confuse already confused guys like me of course

 

[Gondwanaland]

@optimist are you sure you need methylation? You look so healthy in your avatar

 

[optimist]

@optimist are you sure you need methylation? You look so healthy in your avatar

That's the bad thing about ME. You look well on the outside, but feel terrible on the inside...

 

[optimist]

But, I am really optimistic about trying out methylation! One thing that worries me a bit though is that there are rumors that the super strict FDA-sort-of-thing in Norway is going to make even more strict rules. Max allowed B12 in suplements here today is 9mcg, Vitamin D is 20 (that is 1/5 of the often reccomended 4000IUs), and so on.

 

[ahmo]

One thing that worries me a bit though is that there are rumors that the super strict FDA-sort-of-thing in Norway is going to make even more strict rules. Max allowed B12 in suplements here today is 9mcg, Vitamin D is 20 (that is 1/5 of the often reccomended 4000IUs), and so on.

 

[Critterina]

I am also a bit worried about the potassium deficiency part. I am eating a lot of berries, drinking milk and cream in fair doses each day, so I do have a steady intake of potassium naturally. I also take lactic acid which is very rich in potassium. But I saw somewhere someone suggesting to take 3 capsules 3 times a day. That sounds dangerously much to me?

I also hear about methyl-trapping and over methylation. It sounds scary, but I haven't yet fully understood what it is...

Just want to be well prepared so that I do not hurt my self when trying this.

Hi @optimist ,

About that potassium thing...the US RDA is 4700 mg of potassium. Most of the tablets around here are 99 mg, so 3 tablets 3x/day is still less than 900 mg - maybe not enough if the methylation causes you potassium problems. Certainly not too much.

The foods that are high in potassium are coconut milk, banana, sweet potato, some beans, spinach... you can look them up easily enough. Some people get more help from food than pills. Some need to supplement more than they can get from food, and there are just too many pills, so they buy powder. A small bottle of pills may be all you need to start, and see if you are going to need more. Personally, I use coconut water. It has about 600 mg/serving.

Regarding methyl-trap...I'm skeptical about the theory, but obviously some people do have problems that they attribute to methyl trap or too much methylfolate. Looking at the biochemistry, (assuming you buy the theory) you need the mechanisms for using up methylfolate running smoothly to keep you from having too much. So, if you have enough methylB12 (either from your supplement or your enzyme is naturally working well, no MTRR A2756G mutation), and if you don't have the MTHFR A1298C mutation, your methylfolate can freely leave in either of the two pathways, and I'd guess the risk would be low.

Regarding overmethylation - it doesn't seem too predictable what causes it, because different supplements in different people are accused of "overmethylation symptoms" (also not a consistent set, and often not even identified as to what those symptoms are). But most people who report having "overmethylation symptoms" report that niacin takes the symptoms away. So a small bottle of that might be a good idea too.

Welcome to the ranks of the lab rats! and good luck with your experimentation.

 

[optimist]

@Critterina Thank you I am not a lab rat yet though, as I have a lot of studying to do Last week has been a foggy one, so I haven't been able to read so much. It feel reassuring that one can take 4700mg of potassium a day without problems though. Good to know!

Wishing you all a happy day

 

[Critterina]

@optimist ,

How are you doing? The studying can be lots of work. I read and reread the heartfixer website for two months (too sick to do much else) before it even STARTED to come together.

I just wanted to mention that the 4700 mg would include food sources of potassium. If your electrolyte balance is working, extra would probably just be excreted, though.

 

[optimist]

Hello @Critterina! The methylation studies is still on pause as I've been struggling with an unwilling head lately. I am not sure if it was the studying itself that caused it Oh, the irony, ahahaaha

But, I've been doing some preps today - I bough a B-complex and Carnitine. I've also gotten mb9&12 from England. I got the ado stuff too, but it contained folic acid ±20£ wasted there.

I think this is going to take some time to prepare, though I am a bit tempted to just try some mb9&12 to see if I notice anything Not sure if that is wise though?!

The electrolytes is something I need to look into more as well as I notice benefits from magnesium and salt, which sort of tells me they're not balanced (when not supplementing).

 

[Critterina]

@optimist ,

Good to hear from you! It takes some time. The wisdom of trying B9 + B12? there will be a variety of opinions here, because there have been a variety of reactions. I believe Freddd thinks you should get on a B complex (I think) plus fish oil, plus some other things. My health care practitioner started me just like you suggested, on B12 and B9, with no ill effects.

If you can't return the ado, don't throw it out just yet. Although some people can't metabolize folic acid, some can. In ignorance I took it to help overcome what I know now were the beginnings of a neuropathy (it felt like a sudden, brief, pin prick in a foot or toe, out of the blue). For me, enough of it got converted that I got relief. Probably B12 would have worked better, but increase the substrate, increase the reaction - to some extent, anyway.

One thing you might consider is Epsom salt baths. I don't know if it's just my fantasy, but it seems like you absorb what you need with the baths, instead of pills, where your body pretty much just has to deal with what you put in there.

Good luck with whatever you choose!

 

[optimist]

I started my B-Complex yesterday and got a mild anxiety attack that fortunately went quickly over. Today it went fine, and I hope and pray that it will continue like that! Every other multivitamin I've tried so far has been causing dark days for me, so hopefully this one will be different. Perhaps because it contains folate and cobalamin, in contrast to the others...

I found Freddd discussing that Ado with folic acid here, and it might very well work for me after all if my genes are OK
My problem is that if it doesn't work, and I need the other type, it will take over a week for it to get here by mail, which can be frustrating if the symptoms are un-cool. So I perhaps should order the best type already!

I don't know if it's just my fantasy, but it seems like you absorb what you need with the baths, instead of pills, where your body pretty much just has to deal with what you put in there.

You mean you like me personally, or you like people in general

 

[optimist]

L-Carnitine Fumarate

I see you've still got homework to do

I managed to buy L-carnitintartrat... will that be OK, or does it have to b fumarate?

 

[Gondwanaland]

I managed to buy L-carnitintartrat... will that be OK, or does it have to b fumarate?

I don't know, I never got that far with my own protocol... But I think it must be fumarate:

Fumarate is an intermediate in the citric acid cycle used by cells to produce energy in the form ofadenosine triphosphate (ATP) from food. It is formed by the oxidation of succinate by the enzymesuccinate dehydrogenase. Fumarate is then converted by the enzyme fumarase to malate. Human skin naturally produces fumaric acid when exposed to sunlight.[citation needed]

Fumarate is also a product of the urea cycle.

As a food additive, it is used as an acidity regulator and is denoted by the E number E297. Fumaric acid is a food acidulent used since 1946. It is generally used in beverages and baking powders for which requirements are placed on purity. It is generally used as a substitute for tartaric acid and occasionally in place of citric acid, at a rate of 1.36 g of citric acid to every 0.91 grams of fumaric acid to add sourness, similar to the way malic acid is used. It is also used as a coagulant in stovetop pudding mixes.

It is approved for use as a food additive in the EU,[4] USA[5] and Australia and New Zealand[6] (where it is listed by its INS number 297).

 

[Critterina]

You mean you like me personally, or you like people in general

I mean like people in general. I have know way of knowing exactly how you will respond. Sorry for being less clear, but it sounds so stilted when I say "one" meaning people in general.

 

[Critterina]

I managed to buy L-carnitintartrat... will that be OK, or does it have to b fumarate?

So, as I understand it, there are two different functions going on here. Some people will need the carnitine, (I associate dietary carnitine with animal protein) and some will need fumarate. Some, like Freddd, will need both. I think it dissociates and goes to the need. If either is limiting, you (one) may sense the effect. That's a nice graphic @Gondwanaland posted, but you can also see there's no carnitine in it.

 

[Gondwanaland]

http://www.pearsonhighered.com/mathews/ch18/fi18p15.htm

Figure 18.15: The carnitine cycle, for transport of fatty acyl-CoAs into mitochondria.

 

[Critterina]

(picture)

That's nice, too. Thanks. I think it confirms that the carnitine and the fumarate separate when you take them and each go off to do different jobs. Don't you agree?

 

[Gondwanaland]

That's nice, too. Thanks. I think it confirms that the carnitine and the fumarate separate when you take them and each go off to do different jobs. Don't you agree?

I do.
@optimist be sure to research side effects of the supplements, also be sure to start low, really low.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnitine#Physiological_effects
I believe carnitine requires vitamin E, as recommended by Freddd.