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M.E. and exercise – when will they ever learn?

charles shepherd

Senior Member
Messages
2,239
But in view of doctors' ignorance about ME, can that advice be relied on? Or is it given by a really ME-aware specialist?



Logically I think one would have to say yes. After all, people with certain other medical conditions are not allowed to drive. I suspect that the reason that ME is not one such is that it is still not regarded as a 'real' illness.

I myself have been considering getting a car or similar again, after years of not being able to afford to run one (and still can't really) but I have considered my physical and cognitive problems as well and feel that it may be unwise. Even what appeared at first to be a 'good day' might turn into a bad one when I am a long way from home - so how would I get back safely?

So unless I recover significantly from how I am now, I don't think I will be driving. And I am only moderately affected.

Reply

If you are a member of the MEA you will know that we have covered insurance and DVLA issues relating to driving a car in the magazine on several occasions

People who have an on-going health problem that affects their ability to drive have a duty to inform their insurer and the DVLA of this fact. A doctor also has a duty to point this out to a patient, and in some circumstances a doctor can report his/her concerns if they believe the person is driving whilst medically unfit to do so
 

Min

Messages
1,387
Location
UK
Let us not forget that the recovery rate is incredibly low and that for most of us, especially the worst affected, this illness is lifelong because there is no effective treatment.

Concentrating media attention on the few recovery stories gives the wrong impression of the illness.
 

MeSci

ME/CFS since 1995; activity level 6?
Messages
8,231
Location
Cornwall, UK
Let us not forget that the recovery rate is incredibly low and that for most of us, especially the worst affected, this illness is lifelong because there is no effective treatment.

Concentrating media attention on the few recovery stories gives the wrong impression of the illness.

A related issue is that a lot of sufferers who do manage to (get back to) work hide their illness, and may make up different reasons for sick absence, for example. They don't want to lose their jobs or to be labelled as one of those people with a fake illness or one that is 'all in the mind' that just needs some CBT or exercise to fix it.

It's the illness that dare not speak its name. People who think that they have recovered, especially if they have been very public about saying so, may be too proud or embarrassed, for a range of reasons, to let on that they are actually still ill.
 

eafw

Senior Member
Messages
936
Location
UK
Q
That is why M.E. charities should be extremely careful to present the true story of the illness.

Particularly as we're up against the PR spin machine of people like Wesseley, being given airtime at the moment for his latest bit of propoganda where he claims that he's just trying to end the myths around mental illness - while using people with "chronic fatigue" who have been cured by pulling themselves together (ie CBT and GET) as an example, and having the journalists swallow it whole.
 

Aurator

Senior Member
Messages
625
That is why M.E. charities should be extremely careful to present the true story of the illness.
In the overwhelming majority of cases, ME charities are careful in presenting the true story; the media aren't. It's as simple as that.
 

eafw

Senior Member
Messages
936
Location
UK
It always grabs peoples attention when people do things that show they will 'overcome'.

This is actually a large part of the problem, this attitude to illness and disability as some sort of moral failing that just requires "more effort" on the part of those who must somehow have brought their circumstances on themselves.

It's a nasty mix of Victorian puritanism and Medieval superstition, and anyone working with chronically ill or disabled people in a professional capacity (including charities) should recognise the spoken or unspoken myths here and should not NOT be pandering to it.
 

Esther12

Senior Member
Messages
13,774
In the overwhelming majority of cases, ME charities are careful in presenting the true story; the media aren't. It's as simple as that.

I'd say in the majority rather than in the overwhelming majority.

Q


Particularly as we're up against the PR spin machine of people like Wesseley, being given airtime at the moment for his latest bit of propoganda where he claims that he's just trying to end the myths around mental illness - while using people with "chronic fatigue" who have been cured by pulling themselves together (ie CBT and GET) as an example, and having the journalists swallow it whole.

Another problem is that Wessely etc are happy to play the media's game. This makes it harder for charities.
 

Gingergrrl

Senior Member
Messages
16,171
REply

I agree that it would be totally inappropriate for someone with lung cancer to do a smoking challenge. The ice bucket challenge caught on here in the UK as well and some people did it for ME/CFS. The vast majority were healthy friends and relatives (Including my daughter) but there were a few people with ME/CFS who had a go - which was not sensible. Like most charities we do have to turn down fundraising proposals that are likely to be dangerous/harmful or inappropriate (not many) but it's also with noting that most people who do small scale fundraising initiatives for charity just go off an do it without involving or informing the charity concerned. Their name gets used, whether they approve what it is happening or not, and the donation is then sent in. Fact of life…..

@charles shepherd I still don't see how this is any different and not sure if my point was clear. If former lung cancer patients (who now claimed to be "cured" - whether they are cured for life or having a return of cancer years later) were to smoke for a "fundraising challenge" it is a risk to their health. To me, this is no different than having a person with true ME/CFS do a physical challenge- it is a risk to their health.

Yes there are risks to everything and anyone could be in a car accident at any time, etc, and I am not saying that no one should live their lives. Any individual with ME/CFS can do any challenge that they want and I am not saying to take away their freedom. My problem is that a charity that claims to understand the illness and to want to help these people is doing a physical challenge to promote awareness of "Severe ME." On my absolute best day, I cannot walk more than a few feet without getting short of breath. But I am not bed-bound, not in a nursing home, not on a feeding tube, and there are people with severe ME who are.

I feel like this challenge is very disrespectful of those people and spreading misinformation and stigma. But I am running out of energy to continue this debate and leave it up to everyone else as it seems like a losing battle :bang-head:.
 

charles shepherd

Senior Member
Messages
2,239
Let us not forget that the recovery rate is incredibly low and that for most of us, especially the worst affected, this illness is lifelong because there is no effective treatment.

Concentrating media attention on the few recovery stories gives the wrong impression of the illness.

Reply:

I agree that the (complete) recovery rate is very low

But as I've pointed out before, the charity sector has a duty to also give hope to people, especially children and adolescents, that improvement and recovery can and does occur - even though it is not the norm

The number of media stories relating to recovery is in fact fairly low and the MEA does not concentrate its efforts on presenting recovery stories - we don't have that many to present in any case

I cannot disclose anything further at this point but there will be some important media coverage of ME/CFS before Xmas in a very well known and respected publication. And this is not a recovery story.
 

Research 1st

Severe ME, POTS & MCAS.
Messages
768
I've heard that people who are pro science on the Internet regarding CFS allegedly can get censored by certain UK charities on Facebook etc. I thus tend to leave well alone which any charity because I find the idea of arguing with these people terribly stressful, primarily as they are healthy people are not tormented by symptoms as we are. They thus will 'win' an argument through careful positioning every time and do not react adversely as we do, to even minor emotional conflict.

Yes the exercise myth is rarely challenged by not offering up an alternative view, but ultimately one's voice isn't heard anyway short of suing the NHS, which cannot come yet. It will in time with a group legal action, including suing the people who created the NICE guidelines which are unfit for purpose. It's best to leave our very real complaints of selling of psychobabble as science (to the British public) for then I think.

We certainly live in a bizarre world, where referring to scientific studies soon leads to a 'heated debate'. This can apparently get your posts deleted or worse, because the message you convey (scientific) is at odds with BPS and what the UK's Department of Health prefers the public to see. A message of disease denial (CBT/GE works message). Cleary, thousands of CFS published biomedical studies demonstrate that CBT/GE could never work, ever.

Proponents of exercise don't like this, they don't want people to know that research demonstrates exercise is physically impossible for many people with long term life-limiting CFS, due to many having an underlying disease process first described by Ramsay as ME.

I guess it wouldn't be cynical to think, that if all CFS charities in the UK took the approach the 25% group and Invest in ME do (biomedical), then they might not get the funding or the 'position' to influence research. Logically this would be why 'spin' takes the forefront of headlines. Hyperbole and spin.

I notice UK CFS charities tend to be extremely cautious at criticising anyone in the psychiatric field, and I imagine this is to make sure they are invited back to working party reports on CFS/ME, rather than not at all. An 'acceptance' of the view of BPS view of ME by certain charities could reflect some charity heads own experience of their CFS. E.g. that they may personally believe themselves that ME is CFS, and CFS is a mind-body problem, as is promoted by the MRC who funded the PACE trial but refuse to fund a Rituximab trial in comparison.

Until we have a biomarker for subsets of CFS or ME, I would imagine everyone has to tread on egg shells, and most bizarrely, the patients! Still, I sense some hope on the horizon in 2015.

Keeping to the topic of challenging the false information that exercise is beneficial to CFS (for those who have ME), If people want to test themselves, they can demonstrate a few things 'wrong' with themselves at rest if they can find reliable specialist labs, afford private testing costs, and arrange home phlebotomy!

Immune activation markers
Oxidative stress markers
Vitamin and mineral deficiencies
Inflammatory markers
Cardiac risk markers

Combined, if one has significantly abnormal levels of the above, it would be physically impossible to benefit from exercise, because the body would already be in a state of inflammation, and oxidative injury at rest before exercise. Because these tests are mostly 'specialist', the patient never has them, and so never knows they have 'proof' all along that GET is harmful.
 

Keela Too

Sally Burch
Messages
900
Location
N.Ireland
I get frustrated with the word "hope".

People like to dish up recovery stories to give me "hope".
(Usually they are dubious Lightning Process stories..... but that's another whole debate...).

I like hearing these "hope" stories, just as much as some-one in debt likes hearing of other peoples' lottery wins!

To be honest I prefer to deal with enjoying my life at the level I'm at, rather than constantly heartache-ing about why I'm not one of the fortunates in the "hope" stories I'm given.