Need opinions on four supplements (PQQ, ALA, B-5 and L-Carnitine)

[Valentijn]

@Gingergrrl - I've tried PQQ a couple times, but never noticed any effects of it. Additionally, ALA doesn't seem to do anything for me, but it's been quite a while since I tried it.

Carnitine did seem to help me a bit with muscle limitations and pain. I was on high doses of a prescription form for a while (really just used for precise dosing). Though I haven't been taking it for a while due to having Too Much Crap to take already, and avoiding the same issues with excessive inactivity instead

I've never tried substantial amounts of B5, and have never taken in separately from a B-complex.

 

[Gingergrrl]

@Valentijn Thanks for your feedback. For now I have decided against ALA and Carnitine. I ended up ordering the B-Minus supplement that Caledonia recommended so I get a more balanced amount of all the B's (including B5) vs just a super high dose of B5.

I am still conflicted on the PQQ and have not ordered it yet but may in the future. It seems like it helped some people, some people noticed nothing from it, and some it was too agitating.

Thanks again!

 

[JAM]

I took Carnitine for a short time and noticed a spike in energy. Stopped the supplement and upped my red meat consumption and got the same effect. My husband makes jerky for me from grass fed beef at a low temp, and my body tolerates it well.

 

[SickOfSickness]

PQQ helps me with social interactions, but I wouldn't say it gives me energy. It is much more subtle. For me, it just makes speaking take less effort, so I can keep up with a healthy person with less effort, like the other poster wrote about talking on the bus. It doesn't feel like it gives me more energy to speak, but it makes me filter less and not think much before speaking, and maybe helps me process their speech better? It is hard to know exactly but it seems that way. I've had some other medication or supplements do this same effect, where I filter my speech less, but they had more side effects and I feel mixed about it. Sometimes speaking without filtering can be bad or uncomfortable for me. Also if I am talking more, I feel I'm using up energy faster and it's easier to go past my energy envelope. I haven't tried over 10 mg/day.

PQQ did nothing for a friend, even at 20 mg/day for weeks, and I think she tried 30-40mg too. I think people like her find socializing tiring and stressful, but don't have the kind of social delay problems I have, so that is why no difference in her. Or they just don't notice when it's this very specific effect, because they were expecting to get an "energy" boost.

Another friend is sensitive and only takes 2.5 mg a day. I suggest starting at 2.5-5mg for the first few doses. It's one of those that builds up over 2-4 days. The friend who takes 2.5mg would get bad side effects when taking 4-5mg for 2-3 days because of how it builds up.

L-Carnitine Fumarate seems to give me a mental alertness. I can't be sure. It's hard to tell which supplements are having which effect. I doubt it gives me more energy.

I really want to find something that gives me more energy, but have not found anything, except for the kind which are stimulating. I feel they are using up my energy faster. So I have more energy for 2-10 hours but then I will crash or have little energy for hours.

 

[SickOfSickness]

Also CoQ10 may be at least half responsible for making socializing easier for me. I read that CoQ10 does similar to PQQ? Whenever I took PQQ, I always took CoQ10 (and so did my friend who takes the 2.5 mg) because I read it needs the CoQ10 to be effective.

L-Carnitine Fumarate or another supplement could also be causing some of this socializing boost.

 

[Gingergrrl]

@SickOfSickness Thank you for sharing your experiences with me re: PQQ and the other supplements. I still have not ordered the PQQ but it is one that I really want to try. I agree with you re: the lower dose and would start at 2.5 or 5 mg if I can. Do you know what brand your friend uses and if it is capsules or tablets that they cut to make the lower amount? The lowest I have seen that you can buy is 10 mg.

I've decided against trying the Carnitine again and I already take 400 mg of CoQ10 per day. I have not noticed anything (good or bad) from the CoQ10 but am hoping it is one of those supplements that helps me in the long run!

Thanks again!

 

[SickOfSickness]

He opens up the 10mg capsules.

 

[CFS_for_19_years]

@SickOfSickness Thank you for sharing your experiences with me re: PQQ and the other supplements. I still have not ordered the PQQ but it is one that I really want to try. I agree with you re: the lower dose and would start at 2.5 or 5 mg if I can. Do you know what brand your friend uses and if it is capsules or tablets that they cut to make the lower amount? The lowest I have seen that you can buy is 10 mg.

I want to clarify what PQQ does for me - it lifts some brain fog and takes away some drowsiness, and in that sense I find it easier to interact with others and focus on tasks that require use of my brain, even something as simple as composing a sentence. It doesn't turn me into a social butterfly, but returns me to my pre-illness level of interaction. Imagine that the brain fog and sleepiness is like a headache - the PQQ remedies that headache.

If brain fog and daytime sleepiness are NOT part of your illness, you may respond to PQQ differently that me.

The tablet form (Source Naturals PQQ Mind 20mg) would be the easiest to titrate. The tablets are big enough that you could easily cut them into quarters with a pill cutter and get a 5mg dose. The capsule form (Swanson Vitamins) could theoretically be opened and the powder dispensed into halves, but I would find this to be not as precise as cutting a hard tablet into halves and quarters. To each his/her own.

 

[Gingergrrl]

The tablet form (Source Naturals PQQ Mind 20mg) would be the easiest to titrate. The tablets are big enough that you could easily cut them into quarters with a pill cutter and get a 5mg dose. The capsule form (Swanson Vitamins) could theoretically be opened and the powder dispensed into halves, but I would find this to be not as precise as cutting a hard tablet into halves and quarters. To each his/her own.

@CFS_for_19_years Thank you for that info and my experience has also been that it is easier to cut a tablet into quarters as long as it isn't the kind that crumbles when you cut it. I am still conflicted about trying the PQQ but think I will eventually try it as it seems to be the only thing out there that can actually help to create new mitochondria (if the claim is true.)

 

[Tunguska]

I tried all of them. Back when things were still working...

BioPQQ gave energy and helped with brain fog for a number of months. Needed at least 20mg/day, 40mg better. You noticed it most after you stopped it (with a delay). Eventually it stopped having a noticeable effect even at 50mg/day and stopping changed nothing. I continue taking it on occasion to have some in the system.

ALA helped on occasion, one of the few that still does atm, but admittedly I was super careless with it. Lifted fog and mental blocks (immediately). Oddly the regular ALA was noticeable while the supposedly better R-lipoic acid was not. A time-release version of R-ALA was noticeable but contained NAC and can't distinguish.

B5 always did nothing apparent no matter how healthy/sick I was over years. Was scared away from megadosing due to people on acne forums developing what is apparently male pattern baldness that goes on for years from high doses, sometimes even short courses; messes with adrenals and hormones possibly. I've yet to try Pantethine.

L-Cartinine was negative all-around for me. Whether fumarate or ALCAR, 500mg-4g doses. Seems to give me depression and brain fog. I probably don't need it anyway because diet and supplements were high in lysine and co. No idea why, maybe related to acetylcholine. Maybe thyroid but the doses were not huge. No one else seems to have this problem.

 

[Gingergrrl]

@Tunguska Thank you for all the feedback on your experiences with the different supplements I was asking about. Did you find that PQQ ever helped you with physical energy or fatigue or only with brain fog? Did it ever make you feel wired or agitated?

 

[Tunguska]

It was mostly a help for brain fog and awareness. I couldn't judge if it helped outside of that. Don't think I ever felt wired (rarely do now).

Note this is the BioPQQ version (LEF), not sure if the other PQQs have the same effects. Forgot to mention I always took it alongside Ubiquinol as well (100mg daily iirc; I tried Ubiquinol alone at higher doses which was noticeable but was better with PQQ while it worked). Ends up expensive is the downside (sometimes the Ubiquinol goes on sale in pharmacies).

I saw only now that you take 400mg CoQ10 per day. I don't think the regular CoQ10 did much for me either, maybe a few times with huge doses.

 

[Gingergrrl]

@Tunguska I did not know about the BioPQQ version and just looked at the website. I am not quite sure how this differs from the plain PQQ and will have to read more. I am still undecided if I want to try this one but it sounds interesting.

 

[halcyon]

BioPQQ is just a certain preparation of it. If you look closely most of the large supplement companies use it, for example Jarrow and Doctors Best.

 

[jeff_w]

I wanted to add one more question for anyone reading this thread- is there a general B-complex that anyone recommends that does not have folic acid or B-12 in it? Also, how do you know with the labels if they have the right proportion of B vitamins as each one is so different!!!

Douglas Laboratories B-Complex gives me more energy. It is a standard B-complex but with Methyl-B12 and Methylfolate. I take this complex along with Sublingual 5,000mcg B12 and 7.5mg Methylfolate.

This B-Complex is "Dr. Kafuman approved."

 

[Gingergrrl]

@jeff_w I was one of the few that had a horrible over methylation reaction to M-B12 & Folate and the folate was a much lower dose than what you take. You are able to tolerate a really high dose that would be impossible for me! I think it is b/c of my med sensitivities and specific SNP's.

 

[Ema]

I took the LEF Mitochondrial Energy Supplement for a while but it has a lot of B6 which became problematic for me as I started getting neuropathic type pains in my feet and hands that went away pretty quickly after stopping it. It also has only 10 mg of PQQ in 4 tablets. So then I switched to the plain PQQ and didn't notice much of anything when I stopped so I did not repurchase.

I recently got sucked into the new Bulletproof PQQ supplement. It's a liquid and supposedly better absorbed but I haven't tried it yet.

https://www.upgradedself.com/unfair-advantage

 

[Gingergrrl]

@Ema If you try it and it is helpful, please post back on this thread as I am curious about people's experiences with PQQ.

 

[Jarod]

I've tried pqq. Not worth it in my opinion.

I can't remember for sure, but one thing is to watch getting low in copper and also biotin when taking ALA. I take twice a day for many years and not afraid of the constant supplementation. Any infamatory stuff needs to go for this to work. Caffine is a deal breaker for whatever reason.

Carnitine is good, but not too much. Once a day in the AM.

B5 works well with processing oils I think. I take with PABA, lecithin, and fish oil and this especially helps soften hair. Especially when it gets too dry.

 

[Indigophoton]

I have been doing a lot of research and want to get some feedback from you guys re: a few potential supplements ... I would love to hear from anyone who has tried these supplements (good or bad.)

I recently started PQQ after this thread brought it to my attention @Gingergrrl (thanks!) - nothing at first, but after about seven or eight days there was a sudden jump in my cognitive function - memory much better, information processing improved, comprehension and recall all quite noticeably better. For the last few days it just seems to be getting better each day.

Points to note: I am starting from a very low level of function, which may make gains more noticeable, relatively speaking; and I have been taking Noopept for the last 5 weeks, which also made a noticeable difference, but the PQQ seems to have bumped it up to a new level. I wonder whether there may be some synergy there.

Hard to tell if it is helping with physical energy as my sleep has been unusually dire for several months, which is really knocking me about.

I also take acetyl carnitine, and find it helpful in giving a small but definite energy boost. Nausea may be a sign of taking too much - I found this out first hand when, in total brain fog, I accidentally took huge doses for a while. Eventually I started feeling really nauseous within moments of taking it, and then realised what was going on . On the upside, and unexpectedly, the large amounts did help to restore some wasted muscle (guess that's why bodybuilders like it ), despite my lack of activity.