Plant Antivirals

[Slicky]

Also, bear in mind I am dosing a 75lb kiddo so I modified the adult doses on almost everything.

I am willing to go over what he shows to be the tincture or powder adult doses with you. Buhner prefers tinctures for everything, but kiddo will not drink the "juice" fast enough to get all her doses in a timely manner, hence powders for her. The tinctures I do have to use I put in empty "000" caps for her to swallow.

 

[Gingergrrl]

Not sure if I missed it but has anyone tried Monolaurin? (they are anti viral tablets made from monolauric acid from coconut oil.) They helped me tremendously but I stopped them due to nausea/digestive problems. But now I think I was taking a very high dose and am considering trying it again with a lower dose.

 

[Gingergrrl]

10 words or less? Not even 10 herbs or less . But, I have it in the computer: Lomatium Tincture 1 dropperful tid

@Slicky Can you tell me your experience with Lomatium and if you took it for high EBV titres? It is another one that my ND wanted me to try but when I read that some people get a severe rash from it, I got scared and said no.

 

[Slicky]

@Slicky Can you tell me your experience with Lomatium and if you took it for high EBV titres? It is another one that my ND wanted me to try but when I read that some people get a severe rash from it, I got scared and said no.

So far, we have no experience with it yet. Like you, I was reluctant to introduce it due to the potential of rash. I have read more on it now, and went ahead and ordered it. It will be arriving on/about the 16th and we are starting it then. I will update here so you can find it. We have also not started the Rhodiola yet, but will be starting it soon. All the others, kiddo is on the max protocol dose now.

What I read from Buhner is that the rash does not itch, is not bothersome, and resolves on its own in a week or so. No meds/creams help it in any way. My take on everything I have read is that it is a rash that appears on some as a result of some of the viruses dying off.

She is still experiencing some minor herxing here and there. Japanese knotweed seems to be resolving those bouts quite well and reasonably quickly. It is antiviral and CNS anti-inflammatory along with many other things.

 

[Ema]

@Slicky Can you tell me your experience with Lomatium and if you took it for high EBV titres? It is another one that my ND wanted me to try but when I read that some people get a severe rash from it, I got scared and said no.

I have a bottle of lomatium here as well...and have never tried it. I got scared of the rash too! So I'll be interested to hear your experiences with it and whether or not you find it helpful.

 

[Gingergrrl]

@Slicky and @Ema, thank you for your replies and I will be very curious to hear if either of you end up trying Lomatium. I saw pictures of the rash on Google images (although who knows what really gets posted there!) and got too scared to try it. But I was really tempted and considered it although I never bought a bottle. I am very sensitive to meds and take micro doses of everything! I guess I would try only one drop of Lomatium if I ever did start it. Good luck to both of you.

 

[Slicky]

What sold me on going on ahead and trying it is what Buhner says in his book:

"The virus uses it's hemagglutinin to bind itself to the inside of the vacuole membrane, where it opens a pore to the cell's cytoplasm, i.e., its interior spaces. To do this the virus uses what is called the M2 ion channel--ion channels are tiny pores in cells that allow charged molecules to enter and exit cells, bringing food in and allowing waste out. Using an M2 inhibitor blocks this process and literally stops the virus from replicating. (Lomatium is one of the most potent M2 inhibitors known, stronger than the pharmaceutical amantadine.)"

Kiddo was on amantadine for a year for her rubella titers that were over ten times too high also. It dropped those to where they are almost normal now (was 169 now 14). I am hoping lomatium is at least half as successful with her other viruses as amantadine was with her rubella titers.

I decided the rash risk was worth the potential benefits, especially if it just appears, is not annoying, and just goes away on its own in a week or so as I have read. But kiddo does not have to worry about societal issues with a rash. She is only 12, does not work, and is home schooled. I can see how a week long body rash could be a serious deterrent for an adult.

 

[Gingergrrl]

@Slicky, I am new to the board and am not familiar with "Buhner." Can you tell me (in the briefest way possible for you LOL) who he is? Please keep me posted on how your daughter does on Lomatium. I hate to make you repeat anything but what was the origin of her CFS? I am so sorry to hear that someone so young is so ill and my heart goes out to you.

 

[Slicky]

Stephen Buhner is the author of two books I am reading (he wrote many, I am just reading two). I just finished "Herbal Antivirals" and I am currently reading "Herbal Antibiotics". I have a medical background, and found the books to be thorough and informative. Here is his bio (resume'): http://www.gaianstudies.org/Stephen.html This site sums it up much better than I can .

My kiddo has been medically complicated since birth. Currently, she has EBV (>600 w/positive >21.9), HHV-6 (10.54 w/+ > 0.99), Coxsackie (A & B all but two + most with >1:1600 w/+ > 1:100), Varicella (1113 w/+ > 165). IMO, any/all of these contribute to her CFS. She also has PANDAS, low IgG and IgA, autism, and several other neurologic dxs (Arnold Chiari Malformation I, Arachnoid Cyst, Syrigeomylia). She has been on high dose antibiotics for over 2 years. She was on amantadine for just over a year.

I will definitely keep you posted, either good or bad. I am really hoping to see long term improvement with herbals as I would love to treat her completely herbally (even the abx). I have tried one or two herbals for antivirals or antibiotics here and there, with little/no success. With Buhner's books, I feel like I have more direction and a better plan. I know she is herxing right now, which is a pain, but is still a good sign IMO.

 

[Little Bluestem]

Did you daughter experience any improvement from the antibiotics or the amantadine?

 

[Gingergrrl]

Stephen Buhner is the author of two books I am reading (he wrote many, I am just reading two). I just finished "Herbal Antivirals" and I am currently reading "Herbal Antibiotics". I have a medical background, and found the books to be thorough and informative. Here is his bio (resume'): http://www.gaianstudies.org/Stephen.html This site sums it up much better than I can .

My kiddo has been medically complicated since birth. Currently, she has EBV (>600 w/positive >21.9), HHV-6 (10.54 w/+ > 0.99), Coxsackie (A & B all but two + most with >1:1600 w/+ > 1:100), Varicella (1113 w/+ > 165). IMO, any/all of these contribute to her CFS. She also has PANDAS, low IgG and IgA, autism, and several other neurologic dxs (Arnold Chiari Malformation I, Arachnoid Cyst, Syrigeomylia). She has been on high dose antibiotics for over 2 years. She was on amantadine for just over a year.

I will definitely keep you posted, either good or bad. I am really hoping to see long term improvement with herbals as I would love to treat her completely herbally (even the abx). I have tried one or two herbals for antivirals or antibiotics here and there, with little/no success. With Buhner's books, I feel like I have more direction and a better plan. I know she is herxing right now, which is a pain, but is still a good sign IMO.

@Slicky Thank you for the info and response to my questions. How is your daughter feeling so far on the Lomatium and other new treatments? I have been praying for her and your family. I know my situation is very different than hers but we match re: the high EBV titres and low IgA. I am learning so much from everyone on this board who posts about their stories and treatments.

 

[Slicky]

Did you daughter experience any improvement from the antibiotics or the amantadine?

She is taking the antibiotics for the autoimmune condition PANDAS, and they are helping greatly to keep the neuropsych symptoms of that condition to a minimal. The antibiotics do not seem to affect her CFS. Other than her titer numbers going down for rubella, I have not noticed any improvements or set backs with the year of amantadine.

 

[Slicky]

@Slicky Thank you for the info and response to my questions. How is your daughter feeling so far on the Lomatium and other new treatments? I have been praying for her and your family. I know my situation is very different than hers but we match re: the high EBV titres and low IgA. I am learning so much from everyone on this board who posts about their stories and treatments.

The lomatium and rhodiola will not arrive until the 14th or the 16th, so I will have to update on those later.

Prayers are greatly appreciated, and I will pray for all suffering with this debilitating condition. Here is hoping everyone here finds the treatment that works best for their individual situations !

 

[Slicky]

The lomatium unexpectedly came in a few minutes ago, so I am starting her on at 1/2 ml two times a day, then later I will go up to three times a day. The whole ml is an adult dose, so I needed to adjust it still.

I will keep you updated.

ETA:

I can report that 30-45 minutes after I give her the herbs, she has what she has always called the "upsets". Her whole demeanor changes, she becomes very emotional, separation anxiety kicks in heavily, she cries easily, she becomes even more lethargic, and her vocal tic kicks in. I attribute this to herxing and two 750mg Japanese knotweed capsules mostly resolve this. I have begun giving her one knotweed with the herbs, and another if the herxing is too bad. I look at this as a good thing, since we have not dealt with herxing previously on any of my other attempts to resolve her viruses.

I bought a machine that is supposed to help making tinctures and extracts really easy. It is called the "Magical Butter Machine." In making my own extracts and tinctures, I hope to save money, just like making my own capsules from bulk powders. www.magicalbutter.com.

I have begun calling her my little warrior. I tell her she is fighting a big battle, and she is doing so very bravely. We have begun singing a little song while we wait for the knotweed to help:

Viruses, viruses....go away.
We don't want you to stay.
I am fighting you away today.
Soon, I will begin to feel okay.

It gets a little giggle anyway and I cherish the giggles and pray for more to come.

 

[Gingergrrl]

@Slicky, you are such a great parent! I realized I don't know if you are the mom or dad, but either way you are a great parent. I saw my naturopath today and at the moment, we are going in another direction and not trying Lomatium, but I am still very interested in how your daughter reacts to it and I may try it in the future. I know with multiple treatments it is so hard to know what effects (good or bad) are due to each one.

 

[Griffin]

What sold me on going on ahead and trying it is what Buhner says in his book:

"The virus uses it's hemagglutinin to bind itself to the inside of the vacuole membrane, where it opens a pore to the cell's cytoplasm, i.e., its interior spaces. To do this the virus uses what is called the M2 ion channel--ion channels are tiny pores in cells that allow charged molecules to enter and exit cells, bringing food in and allowing waste out. Using an M2 inhibitor blocks this process and literally stops the virus from replicating. (Lomatium is one of the most potent M2 inhibitors known, stronger than the pharmaceutical amantadine.)".

Seems a useful solution. Does he explain how good food and waste come and go if the channels are blocked? Or if this is necessary?

 

[Slicky]

Seems a useful solution. Does he explain how good food and waste come and go if the channels are blocked? Or if this is necessary?

From what I gathered, and I certainly may be wrong----viruses (attached to cells) acquire nutrients and dispel waste through the M2 channel. A cell without a virus attached does not use the M2 channel for nutrients and waste. So the process of stopping the M2 channel will only affect cells that are infected with a virus.

 

[Slicky]

@Slicky, you are such a great parent! I realized I don't know if you are the mom or dad, but either way you are a great parent. I saw my naturopath today and at the moment, we are going in another direction and not trying Lomatium, but I am still very interested in how your daughter reacts to it and I may try it in the future. I know with multiple treatments it is so hard to know what effects (good or bad) are due to each one.

Thank you. I am kiddo's mom. She is a great kid which makes being a parent a whole lot easier.

Did the nauropath give their reasoning for holding off? I am trying to learn all I can too, so if they have a concern (other than the mentioned rash), I would love hear it .

 

[Griffin]

From what I gathered, and I certainly may be wrong----viruses (attached to cells) acquire nutrients and dispel waste through the M2 channel. A cell without a virus attached does not use the M2 channel for nutrients and waste. So the process of stopping the M2 channel will only affect cells that are infected with a virus.

Thanks. Sounds right to me. It doesn't make sense otherwise.

 

[Gingergrrl]

Thank you. I am kiddo's mom. She is a great kid which makes being a parent a whole lot easier.

Did the nauropath give their reasoning for holding off? I am trying to learn all I can too, so if they have a concern (other than the mentioned rash), I would love hear it .

No, nothing to be concerned about! It is just in my case, she doesn't want to start too many new things at once. I just started Florinef and will probably be doing Glutathione IV's and also making significant changes to my diet due to results of my food sensitivity testing. I will also be adding CoQ10 and some other supplements (and getting tested for mold b/c we found mold in our condo) so we just didn't want to do too much at once. But she endorses Lomatium fully, so no worries.