Plant Antivirals

[Slicky]

Day two on lomatium. No rash yet. Her herxing symptoms are worse than they were. They were coming on about 30-45 min after dosing. They were controllable with knotweed and CBD oil. Now they are worse 30-45 min after dosing, but even with knotweed, CBD oil and klonopin, they are not ever fully resolved. We are going to try to bite the bullet and ride this out for a full week to see if they abate any. If we can push through this, I think the progress will be worth it.

I will keep posting now and again about how she is doing and if a rash appears or not.

 

[Slicky]

No, nothing to be concerned about! It is just in my case, she doesn't want to start too many new things at once. I just started Florinef and will probably be doing Glutathione IV's and also making significant changes to my diet due to results of my food sensitivity testing. I will also be adding CoQ10 and some other supplements (and getting tested for mold b/c we found mold in our condo) so we just didn't want to do too much at once. But she endorses Lomatium fully, so no worries.

Okay, thanks for letting me know . I hope you get some relief soon!

 

[Gingergrrl]

Day two on lomatium. No rash yet. Her herxing symptoms are worse than they were. They were coming on about 30-45 min after dosing. They were controllable with knotweed and CBD oil. Now they are worse 30-45 min after dosing, but even with knotweed, CBD oil and klonopin, they are not ever fully resolved. We are going to try to bite the bullet and ride this out for a full week to see if they abate any. If we can push through this, I think the progress will be worth it. I will keep posting now and again about how she is doing and if a rash appears or not.

@Slicky, thanks for all the updates and I am curious to hear if you end up sticking with Lomatium for the full week with your daughter as planned. How do you know if a reaction is due to herxing versus the med/supplement itself? I have always wondered about this and curious how to tell the difference?

 

[Slicky]

Her herxing symptoms are a vocal tic, emotional lability, separation anxiety, etc. Mostly behavioural due to PANDAS. I would not expect these symptoms as a reaction to the herbs. She does have an upset stomach, which could be all kinds of things, so I am watching her for this. Stomach aches also happen to a symptom to PANDAS---it has to be complicated ya know .

I skipped her AM lomatium dose yesterday hoping to have less issues on father's day. Unfortunately, she got up at 5am and was super tired all day, so had the same symptoms anyhoo. Oh well, gotta try .

 

[Slicky]

So far today, her herxing has only been mild and it is back to sporadic. She has only been obviously affected a few hours total today. I hope we are on the wind down portion of the herxing so we can get to the feeling better portion soon. I just gave her the 3pm meds about 30 mins ago, and so far no increase in herx symptoms.......finger crossed.

We started the rhodiola yesterday as well.



ETA: 90 minutes post dosing and still mostly smiles and quiet around here . She is showing small signs of herxing, but no one would notice unless they spent 24/7 with her like I do. Hopefully we are past the worst of the herxing for now. We are at max dose for everything except the lomatium.

I will likely wait until the 4th to boost up the lomatium. We own and operate a fireworks stand for the 4th of July, so I am hoping she can be stable by then. She loves helping the customers and watching the other kids. I do not want to tinker with anything else and jeopardize her fun of that. Deep sigh of relief for the moment.


ETA: 30 minutes past 6 oclock dose, and she is eating pizza and watching "Home Alone 2" , laughing all the way . She has never seen it before LOL. She is also off the couch walking around and jumping with some of the scenes. Off the couch is fabulous!!!!

I sooooooo hope and pray we are past the worst of the herxing. I was thrilled to see herxing because nothing else has caused it yet which could mean nothing else has been working well for her. This causing herxing could very well mean it is working for her. But, I am also sad to watch her unhappy and feeling worse. I have to tell myself it is for the greater good and is only temporary.

 

[Gingergrrl]

Thanks for the updates and it sounds like your daughter is having some good moments of relief today which is awesome! Hopefully the Lomatium is working but it is so hard to tease things apart when different treatments are tried at the same time. I am trying to decide which way to proceed next and I read as much as I can on these forums to try to inform my decisions based off of real people's experiences.

 

[Slicky]

Thanks for the updates and it sounds like your daughter is having some good moments of relief today which is awesome! Hopefully the Lomatium is working but it is so hard to tease things apart when different treatments are tried at the same time. I am trying to decide which way to proceed next and I read as much as I can on these forums to try to inform my decisions based off of real people's experiences.

From what I have read, most the herbs I am giving her work better together than isolated for the greater cause, eradicating viruses and supporting the immune system. I gather someone might do okay only using some of Buhner's protocol, but it may take longer to heal. I decided to almost all out (minus the andrographis) for this trial. She has been sick for a very long time, and I do not want to look back thinking I should have done this or that.

ETA, last update tonight, promise. She took her night batch which includes the lomatium and no herxing an hour later......but some giggles and smiles are here :O Oh, still no rash.

 

[Slicky]

Knock on wood, I believe we are on the other side of herxing. Just over an hour past her morning dose (she slept in ) and no vocal tic or emotional lability. I will be increasing the lomatium very slowly and will likely not increase it until after the 4th except maybe in micro increases.

I will post back if I see a rash or any other symptoms.

 

[Slicky]

Still no rash. We also started concentrated ginger juice tincture. I simmered 10 oz of Ginger juice tincture down to just under 2 ounces and I am putting that in capsules.

She is still having small bouts of herxing, but almost completely out of the woods I suspect. It is definitely manageable.

We walked our small town today passing out flyers for our seasonal business. She did real well the first 3.5 hours, then she got too hot and too tired. However, despite being tired, hot, and having the "upsets" she adamantly wanted to finish passing out the flyers. She stayed in the truck for the last hour which was the driving part of passing them out. As soon as we got home, she was back to being fine and has been fine since.

 

[Gingergrrl]

Still no rash. We also started concentrated ginger juice tincture. I simmered 10 oz of Ginger juice tincture down to just under 2 ounces and I am putting that in capsules.

She is still having small bouts of herxing, but almost completely out of the woods I suspect. It is definitely manageable.

We walked our small town today passing out flyers for our seasonal business. She did real well the first 3.5 hours, then she got too hot and too tired. However, despite being tired, hot, and having the "upsets" she adamantly wanted to finish passing out the flyers. She stayed in the truck for the last hour which was the driving part of passing them out. As soon as we got home, she was back to being fine and has been fine since.

@Slicky Thanks for the update and I am glad your daughter is doing so well and no rash! I will probably be trying Lomatium soon and wanted to ask you how you initially dosed it and titrated the dose? My ND has an elaborate protocol and I am curious if it matches yours. Also, did your daughter have high titres of EBV and HHV-6? Please forgive me if I already asked you the same questions!

 

[Slicky]

I started her out on about 1/3 of a ml two times a day and we are up to 1/3 of a ml three times a day. Now, I am adding a few drops to one of the doses every couple days. My goal is to get up to 1/2 a ml five times a day. I am putting the liquid in an empty capsule.

We are going extra slow because I want her to not be herxing during our 4th of July business season. She absolutely loves to help us out in our fireworks stand, and I want her to be feeling as well as possible.

Currently, she has EBV (>600 w/positive >21.9), HHV-6 (10.54 w/+ > 0.99), Coxsackie (A & B all but two + most with >1:1600 w/+ > 1:100), Varicella (1113 w/+ > 165).

 

[Gingergrrl]

@Slicky My doctor suggested 5 drops of Lomatium in water twice per day and then add a drop until ultimately at 20 drops twice per day and then taper back down to five drops. She said the whole thing would take about 10-12 wks. But she doesn't want to start it yet and is holding off.

Do these calculations match your system? I am not sure how it correlates with your measurements and capsules?

 

[Slicky]

One ml is about 20 drops. So I started her at about 6 drops twice a day, and hope to get her up to 10 drops 4-5 times a day. This is about half the adult maintenance dose Buhner recommends.

I have no idea how long it will take, I am going to gauge based on how she seems to feel over time.

 

[Gingergrrl]

@Slicky Thanks! I guess it is pretty similar in amount just dosed differently throughout the day? Is your daughters energy level and fatigue better with it or were those not her major symptoms? You said she helped pass out flyers for your business for hours which is awesome!

 

[Slicky]

I think she has a little bit more energy in the last week or two than before. My kiddo is verbally delayed, so it is a bit difficult to ascertain some things from her.

She has been sitting on the couch reading books, playing electronic games, or watching TV (movies) for most of the last two years. She has been getting up and walking around the house a bit more recently. She has started doing a few things I have not seen her do in a few years too. Coloring and cutting out pictures etc.....

I will try to keep you updated by pm or on this thread as we progress through this trial on herbs.

 

[Gingergrrl]

I think she has a little bit more energy in the last week or two than before. My kiddo is verbally delayed, so it is a bit difficult to ascertain some things from her.

She has been sitting on the couch reading books, playing electronic games, or watching TV (movies) for most of the last two years. She has been getting up and walking around the house a bit more recently. She has started doing a few things I have not seen her do in a few years too. Coloring and cutting out pictures etc.....

I will try to keep you updated by pm or on this thread as we progress through this trial on herbs.

@Slicky Thanks and I look forward to the updates. For now my ND is having me up the Monolaurin so Lomatium is still on hold.

 

[Slicky]

I kept her on the lomatium and the full protocol until 8-16-14, then I stopped the lomatium, and red root. We are taking a break for now from the lomatium, licorice, and isatis. I adjusted everything to fit within a three times a day dosing. We will likely restart some of this stuff later. I want her liver to have a break from the harsher stuff.

She is doing pretty well right now. Not a ton of energy or motivation, but overall pretty good. We are going to the coast for 5 days soon, so I will see how she does there.

 

[Gingergrrl]

@Slicky Good to hear from you and I had wondered how your daughter was doing on Lomatium and in general. It sounds like she has had some good improvement which is great news.

I ended up not trying the Lomatium and going another route. I saw an ME/CFS specialist and have been taking a prescription anti-viral, Famvir, for over a month. I still take Monolaurin, Maitake Mushrooms, and now take Epicor as well. Based on my history, I just felt that Lomatium would be too strong for my body to handle and I was scared of the rash! It sounds like your daughter did not get the rash which is great news!

Best wishes to you for your trip to the coast!

 

[JAM]

You asked about OLE. I have been taking it since May and seem to be following the same pattern (herxing, feeling good, herxing....) as those who are successful in taking pharma anti-virials. It takes so long for any anti-viral to "prove" successful that it is hard to tell at this point if it will get the viral load down to a "healthy" level or not, but I am going to give it 3 years.

 

[Gingergrrl]

@JAM I was very interested in Olive Leaf Extract but then read that it can significantly lower BP, and I already have low BP, so it didn't seem right for me.