Thirst for MFolate, those that have ramped up

[whodathunkit]

Thanks, @sregan. I'm taking chromium. In fact, I'm taking about every non-pharmaceutical supplement known to lower BG. I'm currently taking ALA, chromium, and resistant starch. In the past I have taken vanadium and lord knows what-all. I have a fierce case of insulin resistance, apparently. But I just started resistant starch last week and actually got some freakishly good numbers yesterday. I think on my current track I'm going to beat it. I've actually normalized myself in the past, but the junk food addiction came back to claim me. But there's a chance I may have that beat now, too. If I can stay on this track forever, all will be well in the near future. Only time will tell.

FWIW I don't really believe in Type II diabetes or even insulin resistance as a standalone ailment, anyway. It's a multi-faceted metabolic disorder that can't effectively be addressed by simply doing one or two things (like taking metformin and cutting carbs, etc.).

Because of the involvement in glucose clearance, you need a well-functioning, non-fatty liver to have good BG control. I think that's my biggest problem. I suspect I have a fatty liver (decades of eating trash food), although not bad enough to show symptoms of non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD). Interestingly, choline may have a beneficial effect on fatty liver, helping to clean it out. A few things I read yesterday leads me to postulate that. It all sort of seems to fit together based on some things I read yesterday...I just don't have the time to sit and sort it all out. So I guess we'll see what happens.

 

[dannybex]

@whodathunkit, the vasoconstriction (and blurred and other vision issues) can also be caused by both high and low blood sugar, and also related adrenal issues.

I'm going to try chromium as @sregan suggested, as it apparently helps 'normalize' blood sugar, whether it's high or low, at least from what I've read. I've been having problems with my eyes for six months now, and just found out about possible connection with insulin resistance, "pre-diabetes", etc.

My hba1c was checked back in July, and was two points shy of an "increased risk for diabetes".

Edit: Just saw your later post -- makes sense, and I agree that it's complicated. Many pieces to the puzzle are involved, but overall, metabolic syndrome/insulin resistance/diabetes seems a lot easier to address than CFS/ME...

 

[dannybex]

@SJB944:

Wow! Within a few hours of adding in the cholines and noopept, I was literally LOOKING AROUND for chores to do. Zoooooom! It was crazy.

That Sunday I did a solid *7 hours* worth of housework. I haven't done that much housework in one day without physically collapsing or having a psychological meltdown in probably a decade.

...

After a few weeks solid of daily use I began experiencing some sides. Blurry vision (citicholine and sulbutiamine), feeling a bit strung out (not bad, just a little) mild insomnia and headache (attributable to all of them), and dry skin (sulbutiamine).

…

FWIW, I don't think I would have responded nearly as well to the nootropics if I hadn't had the physical foundation given me by doing @Freddd's protocol for almost a year first.

Interesting re the choline, and the importance on having that 'foundation' in place first.

I can't seem to tolerate any sort or form of choline, even in foods, but I found a study that linked B12 deficiency with a lower level of acetylcholinesterase, the enzyme that breaks down acetylcholine. Elevated acetylcholine levels are not a good thing (physical and mental overstimulation), and high levels of choline have been found in at least one study of ME/CFS patients.

Not sure if that means the B12 also helps break down or synthesize choline, but I've definitely not been taking MB12 on a regular basis...

 

[Johnmac]

I hit a wall with the Freddd protocol every time. It's great for a while, then I crash: Weakness, fatigue, huge abdominal tension, inability to handle work, "don't like anything", "don't want anything", jittery, anxiety, anhedonia, no concentration, cold hands & feet.

I believe my SNPs suggest less folate & more B12 - but wonder if I should try ramping up nonetheless.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the above mostly aren't paradoxical folate deficiency symptoms. I do not have most of the common PFD symptoms Fred lists - angular chelitis, peeling skin, etc. And the crash always takes more than 3 days - usually around a month.

LCF appears to cause this syndrome more than the other DQs, however it also happens without LCF.

When it happens I take at least 3g of potassium chloride p day (sometimes 6g), but that doesn't seem to solve the problem. The anxiety remains.

If I increase m-folate, do I Increase mB12 accordingly? If the answer is yes, that's a problem - as my most recent crash came about a week after doubling my mB12 & m-folate dosages.

My normal daily dosage for months has been 1.5 mg mB12, 2400 mcg m-folate - plus a tab of AdbCbl every few days, & a speck of LCF daily (larger doses just about killed me, & caused high anxiety).

Any insights welcome...

 

[sregan]

I hit a wall with the Freddd protocol every time. It's great for a while, then I crash: Weakness, fatigue, huge abdominal tension, inability to handle work, "don't like anything", "don't want anything", jittery, anxiety, anhedonia, no concentration, cold hands & feet.

I believe my SNPs suggest less folate & more B12 - but wonder if I should try ramping up nonetheless.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the above mostly aren't paradoxical folate deficiency symptoms. I do not have most of the common PFD symptoms Fred lists - angular chelitis, peeling skin, etc. And the crash always takes more than 3 days - usually around a month.

LCF appears to cause this syndrome more than the other DQs, however it also happens without LCF.

When it happens I take at least 3g of potassium chloride p day (sometimes 6g), but that doesn't seem to solve the problem. The anxiety remains.

If I increase m-folate, do I Increase mB12 accordingly? If the answer is yes, that's a problem - as my most recent crash came about a week after doubling my mB12 & m-folate dosages.

My normal daily dosage for months has been 1.5 mg mB12, 2400 mcg m-folate - plus a tab of AdbCbl every few days, & a speck of LCF daily (larger doses just about killed me, & caused high anxiety).

Any insights welcome...

I was taking 800 mcg Enz MB12 with Solgar 1g MFolate 3 time per day with about 50 mg of LCF with each (usually would get one or two doses but not remember to take with all three). I got pretty wiped out and depression increased substantially (when you say "don't like anything", "don't want anything"). When I doubled my MB12 intake the depression went away and I felt much better. First time I was MethylTrapped the depression was very deep.

I went on the once per week ACBL and did that on Monday with 10 mg per 1g MFolate instead of my usual 1600 mcg MB12. Either the next morning or the morning after that I felt really wiped out. I remember I did take my LCF all three times that day and don't think I've done that before. So it was either the ACBL delayed reaction or too much LCF or both.

Just found this (this it's a quote by Freddd. Found it here): "On the L-carnitine fumarate 125mg is quite possibly a good amount to start with. It can be very energetic in reaction. It works with the adb12. Of course you may not have a shortage there and then it will do nothing. For me at least 500mg once a day 30 minutes before food is as good as it gets."

My understanding about LCF is that the it is supposed to bring the MFolate into the cells. Wondering then why we ramp up on MFolate and MB12 at all without LCF and ACBL in place. Seems a ramping up of all of the quartet at the same time would be less wasteful. (Assume that there is nothing else for the MFolate when there is a deadlock).

 

[whodathunkit]

Possibly trying all four at same time (or at least at the beginning) would cause severe reaction in some people. Either severe potassium defiicency or simply intense, intolerable sides.

I take 1000mg LCF/day now, but for many months I was stuck at 250mg or less per day. Had to back off it entirely a couple of times, restart, etc. But when I could finally tolerate a whole 500mg dose cap of Doctor's Best, I was able to ramp up to 1000mg very quickly. It was like I cleared a hurdle or something. I have no trouble with it now. I count it as one of the greatest things ever. But it did take a long while to become acclimated. At least six months, if I remember right. Maybe longer.

Somewhere Freddd also wrote that TMG can mitigate some of the excitatory effects of LCF. I tried TMG when I was having sides from LCF and really liked the way it made me feel. But I had to quit because after a couple weeks it gave me GI symptoms. But it might be worth trying to pair it with LCF for a while, to see what happens. I wish I could still take it.

 

[Freddd]

My understanding about LCF is that the it is supposed to bring the MFolate into the cells

Hi Sregan,

Actually, the LCF takes the fats through the cells into the mitochondria. It is said that Alpha Lipoic Acid increases the efficiency of that about 50%. In general be suspicious of other induced deficiencies. The LCF also can promote mitochondrial proliferation, neuroblasts, osteoblasts, muscle growth. It can cause a increased need of potassium and/or methylfolate and/or other unknown things needed.

 

[dannybex]

I was taking 800 mcg Enz MB12 with Solgar 1g MFolate 3 time per day with about 50 mg of LCF with each (usually would get one or two doses but not remember to take with all three). I got pretty wiped out and depression increased substantially (when you say "don't like anything", "don't want anything"). When I doubled my MB12 intake the depression went away and I felt much better. First time I was MethylTrapped the depression was very deep.

When you say "don't like anything", "don't want anything", does that mean an irritable sort of depression? Or anxious depression -- super wired but tired?

Just found this (this it's a quote by Freddd. Found it here): "On the L-carnitine fumarate 125mg is quite possibly a good amount to start with. It can be very energetic in reaction. It works with the adb12. Of course you may not have a shortage there and then it will do nothing. For me at least 500mg once a day 30 minutes before food is as good as it gets."

My understanding about LCF is that the it is supposed to bring the MFolate into the cells. Wondering then why we ramp up on MFolate and MB12 at all without LCF and ACBL in place. Seems a ramping up of all of the quartet at the same time would be less wasteful. (Assume that there is nothing else for the MFolate when there is a deadlock).

My guess is that the reason Fred recommends the fumarate form of carnitine is because of fumarate's connection to the Krebs Cycle (along with adb12).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citric_acid_cycle

That's just a guess though. And re the l-carnitine, I would also be guessing that the level of dietary fat might make a difference as to how one responds, since carnitine helps transport fats into the cells. I'm trying to increase my fat, but have had difficulty doing so over the last several years -- a very frustrating catch 22.

 

[dannybex]

Hey @Freddd, good to see you back in action.

I had a quick question about 'peeling skin'. Do you mean all over -- or just around the mouth? I haven't been able to take regular baths or showers, so naturally when I do 'spit baths' -- wash my legs one day -- or my arms -- then I do get a lot of skin shedding.

But it seems like it increases -- or I notice it a lot more -- if I've taken more folate. It's like if I'm providing more folate, then my body is letting go of those skin cells that should be replaced/removed anyway. Does that make sense?

???

 

[Freddd]

My guess is that the reason Fred recommends the fumarate form of carnitine is because of fumarate's connection to the Krebs Cycle (along with adb12).

Hi Dannybex,

I tried it first because of the specific use that was noted. I also then A-B-A trials with ALCAR, a LC tartrate, and a mix of 4 and a mix of ALCAR and LCF. None of the others worked at all. About 10% of folks finding such distinctions find it is ALCAR that is the form for them. I know of no reason for this, just how it pragmatically works out.

 

[Freddd]

Hey @Freddd, good to see you back in action.

I had a quick question about 'peeling skin'. Do you mean all over -- or just around the mouth? I haven't been able to take regular baths or showers, so naturally when I do 'spit baths' -- wash my legs one day -- or my arms -- then I do get a lot of skin shedding.

But it seems like it increases -- or I notice it a lot more -- if I've taken more folate. It's like if I'm providing more folate, then my body is letting go of those skin cells that should be replaced/removed anyway. Does that make sense?

???

My experience has been puzzling in that area as well. I get an increased rate of cell replacement on my skin, and it is good skin. In areas where there is deeper damage, like old acne scarring and such, there seems to be deeper cells formed pushing the damaged areas off leaving smooth skin in it's place. I've had areas of sun damaged skin get shed with nice new skin under it. I don't know how else to describe it. Something like you say perhaps.

 

[dannybex]

Thanks @Freddd. One more question: I think you've mentioned elsewhere that 'thick mucous' and also possibly allergies and MCS-type chemical sensitivities resolved for some patients. Do I have that correct?

I swear there's something in this apartment that's making me worse -- have had sinus issues forever, but both sinusitis and eye irritation, (alternating dryness, then watery, goopy) etc., has been terrible since about June of this year.

 

[Freddd]

Thanks @Freddd. One more question: I think you've mentioned elsewhere that 'thick mucous' and also possibly allergies and MCS-type chemical sensitivities resolved for some patients. Do I have that correct?

I swear there's something in this apartment that's making me worse -- have had sinus issues forever, but both sinusitis and eye irritation, (alternating dryness, then watery, goopy) etc., has been terrible since about June of this year.

Hi Dannybex,

B12/folate deficiencies appear to change the mucosa cells so that they produce a really thick and sticky, like jelly sort of, not at all "slick as snot". I had constant respiratory problems for decades. Chronic sinus problems are par for the course for B12/folate deficiencies. I have had half a dozen pneumonias, all prior to 11 years ago. The hyper responses like asthma and MCS both went away when I got the MeCbl and Metafolin high enough. It took the mucous some while to normalize. One of the effects was when it started washing out the sticky stuff, down my throat, coughing it up, clearing my lungs, it seemed like a new problem with great globs of if but that all settled down quickly.

 

[Johnmac]

When you say "don't like anything", "don't want anything", does that mean an irritable sort of depression? Or anxious depression -- super wired but tired?

As I coined these phrases...in my case it means I don't enjoy where I am, and nor can I imagine any situation (e.g. a date with Julia Roberts) which would make me happy. I feel profoundly uncomfortable in my own skin.

(Both irritable and anxious, to answer your question.)

This happens unfailingly after about a month into the Freddd protocol. It happens with mB12, m-folate & AdbCbl alone; it happens worse when LCF is added.

I've tried lots of K to little avail.

Try the PFD theory, and ramp up the folate? How much?

 

[dannybex]

Thanks @Johnmac. I'm really sorry to hear that, but can relate, almost to a 't'.

I've read that others have had to try different amounts or different percentages of b12/folate -- some backing off on the MB12, others having to back off the methylfolate (that seems more common, at least according to Dr. Ben Lynch), but don't quote me -- I'm in the same boat.

But which to raise, or decrease -- it's definitely a tough decision, especially if one is feeling overly anxious and irritated in the first place.

Regarding potassium, someone on another site suggested that I was taking too much betaine HCL (which is also has a 'chloride' molecule), and that the chloride could be making my body too acidic -- thus drawing on already taxed mineral reserves to balance things out. I'm trying just to get my potassium from food, but might try potassium gluconate at some point.

Do you know what your choline intake is, from foods or supplments? That can definitely make some people very irritable, anxious, and even suicidal, due to increased acetylcholine levels.

Again, just a thought, but I can't seem to tolerate any form of choline, even though it might be beneficial, and I believe in my case it's because of not getting enough b12. (A study w/b12 deficient rats had lower levels of the enzyme that breaks down acetylcholine.)

 

[Johnmac]

@Freddd

Thanks for having a shot at my "riddle", @dannybex. And it's kinda comforting to know there's someone with roughly the same symptoms.

I guess I'll pursue hit and miss quantities of m-folate & mb12 - see what happens.

I suppose it's possible that all this is start-up symptoms - neurological rebuilding - & that we just have to wear it for a few months. And certainly the good times (between meltdowns) are good.

I never had any trouble with betaine HCL, tho haven't tried it with this regime.

A wild guess re choline intake would be "average". I eat eggs, beef, fish, cauliflower, etc.

Good luck with your own journey, & stay in touch.

Thanks @Johnmac. I'm really sorry to hear that, but can relate, almost to a 't'.

I've read that others have had to try different amounts or different percentages of b12/folate -- some backing off on the MB12, others having to back off the methylfolate (that seems more common, at least according to Dr. Ben Lynch), but don't quote me -- I'm in the same boat.

But which to raise, or decrease -- it's definitely a tough decision, especially if one is feeling overly anxious and irritated in the first place.

Regarding potassium, someone on another site suggested that I was taking too much betaine HCL (which is also has a 'chloride' molecule), and that the chloride could be making my body too acidic -- thus drawing on already taxed mineral reserves to balance things out. I'm trying just to get my potassium from food, but might try potassium gluconate at some point.

Do you know what your choline intake is, from foods or supplments? That can definitely make some people very irritable, anxious, and even suicidal, due to increased acetylcholine levels.

Again, just a thought, but I can't seem to tolerate any form of choline, even though it might be beneficial, and I believe in my case it's because of not getting enough b12. (A study w/b12 deficient rats had lower levels of the enzyme that breaks down acetylcholine.)

 

[Freddd]

As I coined these phrases...in my case it means I don't enjoy where I am, and nor can I imagine any situation (e.g. a date with Julia Roberts) which would make me happy. I feel profoundly uncomfortable in my own skin.

(Both irritable and anxious, to answer your question.)

This happens unfailingly after about a month into the Freddd protocol. It happens with mB12, m-folate & AdbCbl alone; it happens worse when LCF is added.

I've tried lots of K to little avail.

Try the PFD theory, and ramp up the folate? How much?

" I feel profoundly uncomfortable in my own skin."

Can you be more specific? Is it sort of a hyper awareness of the body and all its problems? It sort of sounds like ATP is starting up especially with LCF increasing it. Lowering the amount of AdoCbl might help over a month or so. It might also be the hypothesized mitochondria proliferation which is another way to increase ATP production. TMG may alter things in a more comfortable way. If it is ATP startup this is one of those things I don't really see any way around, one of the internal triage layers of B12/folate. It may take a year which in my experience also included muscle pains and problems normalizing and restoration of muscle mass after atrophy. I don't think folate will help but TMG or perhaps more MeCbl. It doesn't sound in the least like induced potassium or folate deficiency. It sounds like ATP startup in which case it is the feel of healing and a reasonable balance. Healing was/is not comfortable

 

[Johnmac]

@Freddd, disappointing to have it confirmed that there's no such thing as a free lunch.

Okay, more specific.

"Is it sort of a hyper awareness of the body and all its problems?"

Not exactly. It's an "I wish I'd never been born" feeling. So uncomfortable that I don't want to be here - tense, highly irritable, intolerant, unable to focus on anything, and can't conceive of anything that would make me feel better.

No muscle pains, tho I fancy I am putting on muscle at last. (Have gained 3 kg, & my legs feel thicker.)

These (in bold) are my notes from the crashes.

The first crash was on September 21:

The last 3-4 days have been shitty. The cognition & energy gains have remained (thankfully), but I have felt:

• A bit jittery (potassium doesn't remove it; increasing folate is what appeared to bring it on)
• 'Tightness' or tension in my abdomen.
• Can't be bothered with anything - no incentive to achieve anything, large or small.
• Can't concentrate on anything.
• Anhedonia - no pleasure in life.
• Uncomfortable in my own body - don't want to be here.
• At least a couple of days of cold hands & feet & temps below 36.
• (But not especially depressed or anxious - the above feelings are different, & not ones I've had before.)
• (Some heart palps, but K fixes them.)

I fancy the 'can't be bothered to work' effect has been slowly growing for ~10 days. (I couldn't be bothered to work much, or found it very hard to concentrate when I did.)

All in all my progress has been excellent - better than most people's - up till I overdosed.

Before the above crash I was taking 855mcg of LCF & sometimes double that per day. The above episode took several days to clear. Thereafter I had lower doses of LCF. The crashes were accordingly milder - utterly wretched, but milder. They still happened with zero LCF.

Various experiments brought contradictory results. More/less mB12 & m-folate brought worsening/improvement. In the end I was confused.

I got on-off anxiety after the September episode. (Sometimes caffeine made it worse, sometimes not.) By late October it was every day (unprecedented for me). It only ended a week or so ago, after I quit LCF altogether. I was on a few specks once daily till then.

On October 7 I crashed again: today I have crashed: can't be bothered with much; bad-tempered; woke with headache which is still there; slept 9 hours, + another hour during the day.

The "can't be bothered" thing is a real hallmark. If someone rings, I can't be bothered talking to them. If there's work to be done, I can't be bothered doing it. If the roof sprang a leak, I wouldn't be bothered to fix it.

October 9: I took an LCF dose in the morning (no other DQs), and symptoms got a lot worse again. I spent the whole day in bed. Headache turned into a migraine.

Recommenced the folate & B12 last night (no LCF), & continued to improve. This morning woke with some euphoria; took the m-f & mB12, & added just a small pinch of LCF - maybe 70mcg. Felt slightly more anxious thereafter.

But today I basically feel good. The only residual symptom is low body temp. I am freezing at midday when it is sunny outside, & have wrapped myself in a doona. Last time that lasted a week, tho will be less this time I'm guessing because of the smaller LCF doses behind this crash.

I am fairly sure there was no element of paradoxical folate deficiency in this crash. Of all Freddd's 41 paradoxical folate deficiency symptoms, I had only 4: "less sociable", "impaired planning and logic", "low energy", "increased irritability". And virtually none of the body ones like diarrhea & chelitis.

NB that LCF symptoms take several hours to arrive. Nothing much at first.

And on the bright side:

Oct 19:

Summary of changes since beginning the Freddd protocol:
Gut much more stable (no gas; almost no diarrhea - a big change)
Brainfog gone (which automatically means mood is better: tho I wouldn't say mood is great)
Sleep 2 hours less per night
Physical energy better during the day - no more fatigue
Gained 3 kg (good)
Psoriasis faded but it didn't last
Libido much higher
Halved hydrocortisone dose to 10mg/day (then 5)
Better blood-sugar response (less knocked around by carbs)
Improved motor skills, e.g. typing
Better exercise tolerance
Better mental functioning: thinking faster, planning, making decisions, etc
Oily nose (despite lowering hydrocortisone)
Daytime temps (not waking temps) have normalised - 36.9 or 37 consistently

Oct 29:

Another crash - smaller, probably because my LCF doses had been steadily dropping since the big crash. This is when the anxiety began in earnest. I noticed in the weeks after this that even going off LCF for a few days didn't always reduce anxiety a lot.

Started to wonder if I am pyroluric. Took pyroluria supps, and noticed an immediate drop in anxiety. That worked for a month - then it stopped working.

Since then:

Whatever is causing the anxiety - presumably the DQs especially LCF - trumps anything else. For example T3 (thyroid hormone), taurine, GABA, 5HTP, inositol, and now the pyroluria supps all fail to stem it. Only going off LCF completely seem to have done the trick.

Jan 12: Had another meltdown: this time without any LCF, and this time with gluggy head & headache. Slept most of the last 36 hours - the bed was like a giant magnet.

To this point, doses p day had been mB12 1.5mg; m-folate 1200mcg; + half a tab AdbCbl every 7 days. However I doubled those about a week before the Jan 12 crash.

(Have been drinking a bit of whey lately, tho the earlier crashes happened without whey.)

Thankyou Fred. If it's sfx of healing, then I'll push on. I'll also try the TMG, & raising the mB12.

I guess whenever I crash I'll just do what I do now: stop everything till it subsides.

Any comments?

Thanks & all the best...

 

[Freddd]

@Freddd, disappointing to have it confirmed that there's no such thing as a free lunch.

Okay, more specific.

"Is it sort of a hyper awareness of the body and all its problems?"

Not exactly. It's an "I wish I'd never been born" feeling. So uncomfortable that I don't want to be here - tense, highly irritable, intolerant, unable to focus on anything, and can't conceive of anything that would make me feel better.

No muscle pains, tho I fancy I am putting on muscle at last. (Have gained 3 kg, & my legs feel thicker.)

These (in bold) are my notes from the crashes.

The first crash was on September 21:

The last 3-4 days have been shitty. The cognition & energy gains have remained (thankfully), but I have felt:

• A bit jittery (potassium doesn't remove it; increasing folate is what appeared to bring it on)
• 'Tightness' or tension in my abdomen.
• Can't be bothered with anything - no incentive to achieve anything, large or small.
• Can't concentrate on anything.
• Anhedonia - no pleasure in life.
• Uncomfortable in my own body - don't want to be here.
• At least a couple of days of cold hands & feet & temps below 36.
• (But not especially depressed or anxious - the above feelings are different, & not ones I've had before.)
• (Some heart palps, but K fixes them.)

I fancy the 'can't be bothered to work' effect has been slowly growing for ~10 days. (I couldn't be bothered to work much, or found it very hard to concentrate when I did.)

All in all my progress has been excellent - better than most people's - up till I overdosed.

Before the above crash I was taking 855mcg of LCF & sometimes double that per day. The above episode took several days to clear. Thereafter I had lower doses of LCF. The crashes were accordingly milder - utterly wretched, but milder. They still happened with zero LCF.

Various experiments brought contradictory results. More/less mB12 & m-folate brought worsening/improvement. In the end I was confused.

I got on-off anxiety after the September episode. (Sometimes caffeine made it worse, sometimes not.) By late October it was every day (unprecedented for me). It only ended a week or so ago, after I quit LCF altogether. I was on a few specks once daily till then.

On October 7 I crashed again: today I have crashed: can't be bothered with much; bad-tempered; woke with headache which is still there; slept 9 hours, + another hour during the day.

The "can't be bothered" thing is a real hallmark. If someone rings, I can't be bothered talking to them. If there's work to be done, I can't be bothered doing it. If the roof sprang a leak, I wouldn't be bothered to fix it.

October 9: I took an LCF dose in the morning (no other DQs), and symptoms got a lot worse again. I spent the whole day in bed. Headache turned into a migraine.

Recommenced the folate & B12 last night (no LCF), & continued to improve. This morning woke with some euphoria; took the m-f & mB12, & added just a small pinch of LCF - maybe 70mcg. Felt slightly more anxious thereafter.

But today I basically feel good. The only residual symptom is low body temp. I am freezing at midday when it is sunny outside, & have wrapped myself in a doona. Last time that lasted a week, tho will be less this time I'm guessing because of the smaller LCF doses behind this crash.

I am fairly sure there was no element of paradoxical folate deficiency in this crash. Of all Freddd's 41 paradoxical folate deficiency symptoms, I had only 4: "less sociable", "impaired planning and logic", "low energy", "increased irritability". And virtually none of the body ones like diarrhea & chelitis.

NB that LCF symptoms take several hours to arrive. Nothing much at first.

And on the bright side:

Oct 19:

Summary of changes since beginning the Freddd protocol:
Gut much more stable (no gas; almost no diarrhea - a big change)
Brainfog gone (which automatically means mood is better: tho I wouldn't say mood is great)
Sleep 2 hours less per night
Physical energy better during the day - no more fatigue
Gained 3 kg (good)
Psoriasis faded but it didn't last
Libido much higher
Halved hydrocortisone dose to 10mg/day (then 5)
Better blood-sugar response (less knocked around by carbs)
Improved motor skills, e.g. typing
Better exercise tolerance
Better mental functioning: thinking faster, planning, making decisions, etc
Oily nose (despite lowering hydrocortisone)
Daytime temps (not waking temps) have normalised - 36.9 or 37 consistently

Oct 29:

Another crash - smaller, probably because my LCF doses had been steadily dropping since the big crash. This is when the anxiety began in earnest. I noticed in the weeks after this that even going off LCF for a few days didn't always reduce anxiety a lot.

Started to wonder if I am pyroluric. Took pyroluria supps, and noticed an immediate drop in anxiety. That worked for a month - then it stopped working.

Since then:

Whatever is causing the anxiety - presumably the DQs especially LCF - trumps anything else. For example T3 (thyroid hormone), taurine, GABA, 5HTP, inositol, and now the pyroluria supps all fail to stem it. Only going off LCF completely seem to have done the trick.

Jan 12: Had another meltdown: this time without any LCF, and this time with gluggy head & headache. Slept most of the last 36 hours - the bed was like a giant magnet.

To this point, doses p day had been mB12 1.5mg; m-folate 1200mcg; + half a tab AdbCbl every 7 days. However I doubled those about a week before the Jan 12 crash.

(Have been drinking a bit of whey lately, tho the earlier crashes happened without whey.)

Thankyou Fred. If it's sfx of healing, then I'll push on. I'll also try the TMG, & raising the mB12.

I guess whenever I crash I'll just do what I do now: stop everything till it subsides.

Any comments?

Thanks & all the best...

Hi Johnmac,

Neurological healing for me was about how you describe, moods all messed up and changing. Also, all the old, put aside for later problems started coming up, all the things I was too sick to deal with. It was like 20 years of pent up moods and problems all coming out at once. It seemed like to me the irritability and such came from damaged neurons trying to work. The good news was that symptoms in general continued to change, then to fade and finally be gone. For instance. I have had neurological pain shooting down both arms to hands and clumsiness and such for 20+ years. For 10 years I couldn't raise my arms to comb my hair and my arms were not much use. Then it retreated until almost normal, then came back with the brand (of MeCbl) crash 3 years ago. My shoulder is no longer painful and the pain is retreating towards my hands, and they are improving some. But boy oh boy do they hurt this morning. Good luck.

 

[Johnmac]

@Freddd

I haven't had any neurological pain, & it's not so much my "pent up moods and problems all coming at once" as simply an inability to focus on anything or enjoy anything, and irritability & intolerance. And 36-hour sleeps. Does that still sound like neurological healing?

I notice that the LCF version of my meltdown is characterised by anxiety, and the non-LCF version (3 DQs only) by depression/despair.

As for treatments: Try TMG, try increasing mB12 and lowering AdoCbl - & otherwise grin & bear it?

Thanks again!