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Uric acid

Kimsie

Senior Member
Messages
397
@Kimsie

It seems that the warning regarding diabetics and ribose is due to the blood sugar lowering effect. That is if they are on insulin. I took my test first thing in the morning after having one dose of ribose the day before, so the rise is due to something else, unless there is a knock on effect with the receptors, will see.

I do have some Glycine in so may try it in a day or two. The b6 was a good tip thanks very much for that.
The first time I took ribose - 5g in the morning - I couldn't sleep the whole night. Even with lower doses I'm wary of taking it 3x daily.

Taking B vitamins later in the day often has the same effect - I can't sleep.

Even glutamine gives me insomnia. Glycine helps me to sleep, though. Aspartic acid I'm not eager to try, as I am prone to excitotoxicity.

I think that most likely the sleepless effect will go away as the enzymes adjust so the best thing to do might be to lower the dose and take it only twice a day for a while with the last dose being at least 6 hours from when you want to sleep for the night.

After a person is adjusted to a particular dose they could gradually raise the dose and when they don't have trouble sleeping with a three gram dose twice a day they could start adding in an evening dose making that dose as small as the other ones were at first and building up.

When the body is really low in something used in an enzyme reaction, the body tries to compensate by making large amounts of that enzyme. If the person takes that something as a supplement then suddenly they have too much of the product of the enzyme and probably other things too down the line, and the person has unwanted side effects until the body has time to lower the amounts of the enzymes. This happens a lot with people with ME/CFS because it appears that they are very low on a lot of things.

This is why it is so important to start low and build up, and to build up on the B vitamins together. But I think it would be a mistake to take it to mean that you can never take a larger amount of some vitamin, it just means you have to go slow in building up the amount. Some people might have to go very slowly.
 

brenda

Senior Member
Messages
2,270
Location
UK
@Kimsie

Thanks I took 2 X 1/8 teaspn today and might have felt more energy, not sure yet. I did spend more time out shopping. Would it have been best to take it on returning home?
 

Kimsie

Senior Member
Messages
397
@Kimsie

Thanks I took 2 X 1/8 teaspn today and might have felt more energy, not sure yet. I did spend more time out shopping. Would it have been best to take it on returning home?
I think spreading it out over part of the day but not too close to bedtime is the important thing, not when you do your activities in relationship to taking it.
 

adreno

PR activist
Messages
4,841
I have ordered some Mg aspartate. The binding of aspartic acid to Mg should make it release slower, and the Mg should protect against any excitotoxicity. N-acetyl-aspartic acid (NAA) has been found to be low in many neurological conditions, so getting some more aspartic acid might not be such a bad idea, in particular if it is also the rate limiting factor in NAD production. We'll see.
 
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Hanna

Senior Member
Messages
717
Location
Jerusalem, Israel
I still don't understand why supplementing NAD directly with a sublingual ( "a la Freddd", to let it dissolve and absorb through the mucuous tissues and not through the classic oral route - like Source Natural NAD 25 mg tabs). Could someone explain ?
Doesn't it go directly to the blood stream ?
 

Kimsie

Senior Member
Messages
397
I have ordered some Mg aspartate. The binding of aspartic acid to Mg should make it release slower, and the Mg should protect against any excitotoxicity. N-acetyl-aspartic acid (NAA) has been found to be low in many neurological conditions, so getting some more aspartic acid might not be such a bad idea, in particular if it is also the rate limiting factor in NAD production. We'll see.
I think the mag aspartate is a good idea.

For those who haven't been following the NAD recipe thread, I had pointed out that when we were supplementing the other ingredients in the NAD recipe, but not aspartate, aspartate became the limiting ingredient, because there was a sudden and rapid improvement when we added it. That doesn't necessarily mean that it is the limiting ingredient for everyone, because there are a lot of factors which can influence how much is available in an individual person.

It is working pretty well for us to use the proportion of ingredients I listed in one of my posts but I can't find it right now so I will post this again below, and I think it is a good idea to keep in mind that if you are not taking one of the ingredients, it can become a limiting factor eventually, as the body's reserves are taxed.

So if a person finds that the NAD recipe helps at first and then isn't helping as well, the first thing they should think of is maybe they have a shortage of one of the ingredients.

The following is a rehash for those reading this post who haven't already seen it.

The illustration below represents the amount in teaspoons of the powdered forms that mostly balances the amount of each used to make purines. (Except the aspartic acid has already been reduced about 10%) The A in NAD and ATP stands for a purine. This isn't to say that everyone needs to take all of these in these proportions, because there are many factors which influence the availability of the amino acids, and there is a lot of individuality in how people respond to these amino acids and ribose, which is a type of sugar.
NAD recipe2.jpg
 

brenda

Senior Member
Messages
2,270
Location
UK
@Kimsie
I have had a good day today after a decent amount of sleep last night. Definitely more energy, just hope l did not overdo it. 3x 1/8th teasp. ribose. I am getting pretty excited about it. Just one thing, b vitamins esp b12 and vit d3 cause depression a few hours later. Is there a fix? Many thanks again. If l don't crash tomorrow l want to kiss you!
 

Kimsie

Senior Member
Messages
397
@Kimsie
I have had a good day today after a decent amount of sleep last night. Definitely more energy, just hope l did not overdo it. 3x 1/8th teasp. ribose. I am getting pretty excited about it. Just one thing, b vitamins esp b12 and vit d3 cause depression a few hours later. Is there a fix? Many thanks again. If l don't crash tomorrow l want to kiss you!
Do you mean that B12 and B3 caused you depression today or in the past? Can you describe the depression - feeling sad, lack of motivation? How long does it last? How much B12 and B3 and how much of the other B's were you taking, esp folate? Has folate ever made you feel depressed?
 

brenda

Senior Member
Messages
2,270
Location
UK
@Kimsie
I can only take very small amounts of any vitamin since having an Interstitial cystitis flare. Methyl b12 and methylfolate by far the worst. They must be increasing inflammation. Still some bladder inflammation. I also get very low mood. It is very hard to cope with. Past traumas come back. It lasts the rest of the day after a few hours onset. Nearly suicidal at times.Today l am okay as l did not take complex.

I am only taking less than 1/8th capsule of complex and just 100mcg D. Since my new diet l am tolerating them better and the IC is improved. I quit sugar and dairy.
 

Kimsie

Senior Member
Messages
397
@Kimsie
I can only take very small amounts of any vitamin since having an Interstitial cystitis flare. Methyl b12 and methylfolate by far the worst. They must be increasing inflammation. Still some bladder inflammation. I also get very low mood. It is very hard to cope with. Past traumas come back. It lasts the rest of the day after a few hours onset. Nearly suicidal at times.Today l am okay as l did not take complex.

I am only taking less than 1/8th capsule of complex and just 100mcg D. Since my new diet l am tolerating them better and the IC is improved. I quit sugar and dairy.
That's very interesting. I will have to think about it to see if I can come up with any ideas.
 

brenda

Senior Member
Messages
2,270
Location
UK
@Kimsie

I had a feeling of stimulation last night so will go back to 2 x instead of 3 x. Slept all through the night again! I am soaking my feet in hot water at night which is an old remedy so I don't know which one is working.

No crash this morning! However my blood sugars are up 7.0 fasting which is way too high. It may have been something I drank yesterday though. I did something yesterday that I cannot remember being able to do, that is go into town and later vacuum. It is usually one thing a day.

So I will stay on this dose of ribose for another couple of days and monitor my glucose levels. If I have just this amount of extra energy it will be fabulous! I might not have tried this if I had been in a crash or stuck but my health is on the up so I feel I can risk it but will be careful to stay in the safe zone. If I had not given up caffeine recently it might have been a different matter.
 

Kimsie

Senior Member
Messages
397
@Kimsie

I had a feeling of stimulation last night so will go back to 2 x instead of 3 x. Slept all through the night again! I am soaking my feet in hot water at night which is an old remedy so I don't know which one is working.

No crash this morning! However my blood sugars are up 7.0 fasting which is way too high. It may have been something I drank yesterday though. I did something yesterday that I cannot remember being able to do, that is go into town and later vacuum. It is usually one thing a day.

So I will stay on this dose of ribose for another couple of days and monitor my glucose levels. If I have just this amount of extra energy it will be fabulous! I might not have tried this if I had been in a crash or stuck but my health is on the up so I feel I can risk it but will be careful to stay in the safe zone. If I had not given up caffeine recently it might have been a different matter.
Be sure to keep resting. I know it's terribly tempting to raise your activity level, but if you do, then I think that you will eat up the extra energy for activity instead of using it for healing. Breaking up your activity helps, too, if you break it up with complete rest where you lie down and close your eyes and completely relax your mind and body for 10 or 15 minutes to avoid long periods of activity (even lying down listening or talking is an activity). Try to wait 10 days before you raise your activity time a little.
 

sueami

Senior Member
Messages
270
Location
Front Range Colorado
I'll second Kimsie's caution about not raising activity levels. I did that, without even thinking about it, when I started feeling better and I crashed worse than I ever have. I'm finally recovering some out of that crash within a crash, 13 days later.

Remember that the goal here is not to do more stuff. Not to vacuum more or shop or organize or declutter or take care of whatever seems to need taking care of.

The goal is to let the mitochondria renew and repair. If you don't do that, you'll crash again. The house will get dirty again. The projects will pile up again. And you will feel terrible and have gained nothing.

It is awfully hard to rest and not think. There are some great mindfulness meditations out there. Search Jon Kabat-Zinn and Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction on youtube and listen to some of his guided meditations.

Give yourself the gift of healing before anything else.
 

brenda

Senior Member
Messages
2,270
Location
UK
Thanks @Kimsie and @sueami you are right of course. I was getting carried away! It was such a change to be able to do two things in one day and to go out two days running. I have reigned myself in and rest.

Another decent sleep last night.
 

sueami

Senior Member
Messages
270
Location
Front Range Colorado
@Kimsie, I'm ramping up my l-glutamine because I was getting nowhere with rest and just d-ribose and niacinamide, and I realized I was taking only half a gram of glutamine to 4-5 grams of ribose.

Does your recipe above work for grams as well as teaspoons? My l-glutamine is in capsules at the moment, so I can't really measure it out in tsp form easily. Just wondering if it's 200 percent of the grams of d-ribose as well as 200 percent of the volume of d-ribose, if that makes sense.
 

Kimsie

Senior Member
Messages
397
I understand what you are asking. It is mainly the glycine which has a much smaller molecule and so you need less grams.

For glutamine and glycine the mass is about the same. We take a little more in grams of glutamine than ribose, maybe 6 grams of glutamine to 5 grams of ribose. Ribose is used in the salvage or recycling pathway of purines and for that pathway, you don't need the amino acids for salvage.

You might consider aspartic acid, too. It is said that it can excite the neurons, so probably it is a good idea to go slow with it, but we use about 3 grams of aspartic acid to 5 grams of ribose and it seems to help and we haven't had any problems, but none of us are sensitive to supplements.
 

sueami

Senior Member
Messages
270
Location
Front Range Colorado
Thanks for that clarification. I had DH pick up some magnesium aspartate in town and started on that yesterday. I've ordered aspartic acid online. I will slowly ramp up with that when I get it. I was ramping up too slowly with glutamine and had to get over my fear of that. I think I'm noticing some improvements now. Fingers crossed that it holds.
 

sueami

Senior Member
Messages
270
Location
Front Range Colorado
kimsie, I am wondering what you've read about side fx/max safe dosages of these supps?

my body wants more than i am giving it right now (about 2.5 g of glutamine and 1.6g ribose and .5 grams glycine every 2 hours) but i am nervous about total daily dosages and can't spare the energy to research each right now.
 
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sueami

Senior Member
Messages
270
Location
Front Range Colorado
Okay, the recent dose kicked in and i was able to do some quick searching. I see 14g/day as a safe max for glutamine and up to 60g a day for ribose and glycine. Have you read differently?
 

Kimsie

Senior Member
Messages
397
Okay, the recent dose kicked in and i was able to do some quick searching. I see 14g/day as a safe max for glutamine and up to 60g a day for ribose and glycine. Have you read differently?
No, but I am not sure where they get the 14 g total as a safe max for glutamine. I think there is a lot of individual variation and some people can take more and others have to have less. Probably the best thing is to gradually increase and evaluate as you go along, but I think sometimes a person who is low in aspartate might not be able to take too much glutamine until they take some aspartate to use with it and balance it out.

If you are taking the doses you listed every 2 hours you might have enough of those things and the aspartate might be the limiting factor now.