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What are your DHEA and DHEA-S numbers? Fasting cortisol numbes?

Discussion in 'Hormones' started by BEG, May 16, 2011.

  1. BEG

    BEG Senior Member

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    Here is a great article which gives the symptoms of adrenal insufficiency:

    http://endocrine.niddk.nih.gov/pubs/addison/addison.htm

    I seem to have them all.

    my numbers:

    DHEA: 96
    DHEAS: 22

    Fasting cortisol (10:30 A.M.): 5.2

    Are the normal ranges uniform for all labs?

    What are your numbers just to give me an idea where I stand?

    Do you supplement with DHEA? What if you've had breast cancer? Bad idea?
  2. BEG

    BEG Senior Member

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    Saw my doctor today who prescribed prednisone (5 mg.) to take when I've crashed so deeply I feel I am dying. I also have a referral to an endocrinologist who will (probably) run the whole gamut of tests to determine if indeed I have adrenal insufficiency. (Of course, I wouldn't take the pred. within weeks of my appointment.) I have no idea what the treatment would be.

    How have others determined they have adrenal insufficiency? Do most feel that naturopaths have purview over this area? Or that just trying supplements is the way to go?
  3. lizw118

    lizw118 Senior Member

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    I was tested via saliva and acth stim. I make cortisol at night (it's high in the p.m.) but not enough in the morning. The doc I saw at the time put me on hydrocortisone therapy for adrenal fatigue, starting at 25 mg. I ended up needing slightly more than that. At this point I am pretty much stuck on the stuff three years later, which makes me regret starting it in the first place. I had another saliva test post HC therapy which showed that my daytime cortisol is now lower and my night cortisol is higher than before treatment, plus my dhea and testosterone is now low where they were normal before. My estrogen has also lowered after starting HC. I believe these things lowered because the HC stopped my adrenal gland from functioning as much (in the day at least) and so maybe my adrenal gland also stopped producing sex hormones and dhea. I am bummed out about this.
    Liz
  4. soxfan

    soxfan Senior Member

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    I was just tested through blood and saliva. My blood cortisol level at 8am was 8.2 so he ordered the 4x daily saliva testing. My levels were
    7am 3.1 (range 7.0-10)
    12pm 1.3 (range 3.0-6.0)
    4pm 1.3 (range 2.0-4.0)
    10pm 1.4 (range <1.5)

    I was on cortef for 4 years and the endocrinologist had me wean off. I was on 15mg and it took me a year to wean off...it was very difficult. Now I am back seeing the doctor who originally prescribed the cortef and he says I need to go back on because of the low cortisol levels. I agreed to go on only up to 5mg and if I don't feel any diffrence then I will discontinue it.

    I had this same saliva test (same company) done in 2006 and my readings then were almost identical to what they were in Feb 2011. I don't believe I had adrenal supression from the dose I was on but I definately had withdrawl effects which were not pleasant. I will say that I did try the Isocort but it made me feel really strange. My DHEA level was 170.2 (range 33.0-496.1). The doctor also tested my melatonin level which was 3.3 (range 5-10)
  5. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    My dhea has tested low 2.1(2.2-15.5) and i have read for good health should be in the upper third of the healthy range. dhea and especially pregnenolone effected me badly with insomnia and headaches etc although the first few days was like a total remission. My cortisol has tested low normal for morning blood test and i assume its high at night which is why my sleep is whacky. I did start taking siberian ginseng and high dose vit b5 and my dhea came upto 4.32, so into normal range but low. I have since added a very low dose of dhea 10mg and will retest in a month or so.

    Being a male these hormonal tests are going to be different to the females, its amazing what an extra appendage does. But i did have good total testosterone and low free testosterone and high estrogen. So with the addition of arimidex which blocks the conversion of testosterone to estrogen, this has increased my free testosterone and lowered my estrogen levels. This has helped me lose the spare tyre and increased my sex drive, abit, lol.

    As far as helping cfs symptoms etc, it plays its part but its not the whole picture and it helps some. When it comes to treating cfs, it will be the some of its parts that help, treatment parts.

    cheers!!!
  6. August59

    August59 Daughters High School Graduation

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    The last time mine was checked:

    DHEAs = 17 ug/dl (Range: 95 - 530 ug/dl)
  7. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Is anyone still watching this thread?

    My blood DHEA tested 17 in January and 14 in April and 14 in July. Reference range is 26-200 ug/dL.
    Mid May I started a compound cream containing progesterone, estradiol, estrogen, testosterone, and 5 mg DHEA daily (divided doses). I can't figure out why the DHEA didn't go up - everything else did. Will see my doc next week. Any ideas?
  8. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    my last dhea test was done at the beginning of the year while i was on 25mg of oral dhea and 50mg of transdermal pregnenolone my dhea was 5.8(2.2-15.5), 12 months prior to this on the same supps it was 7.1, so its dropped some. SInce my last test i have increased my dhea to 25mg twice a day, I get retested in a few months.

    As for your dhea not going up, if its a transdermal cream some have problems absorbing creams through the skin, can also have to do with where u place the cream, generally better absorbed on areas where the skin is thin and less body fat, inside of forearms and shoulders is where i use my transdermal creams. I know a few people are told to place the cream down their sides/flanks but if carrying abit more body fat then normal it may not get absorded as well or could convert to estrogen alot easier. Also 5 mg is a small dose so maybe not enough to make a difference for you. might be worth trying oral form of dhea??
    Critterina likes this.
  9. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Thanks, heapsreal.

    Oh, I see how small my dose is - 10% of your dose. I do place it on my inner forearms. I was told there and inside of thighs, but I've stuck with my forearms for just the reason you say - subcutaneous fat is thickest on my inner thigh - flanks not so much, but that wasn't an option given to me.

    My cream contains the other hormones, two Es, P, and T - as all were low and my saliva cortisol was low-normal morning and not detectable afternoon and evening. All the rest went up, and I passed my ACTH challenge test. I figure having progesterone as a cortisol precursor helped that. Progesterone had been undetectable in two tests three months apart before I started on the cream... They are all above normal range now for post-meno women, which in a way is too bad. I've had low temps and thyroid has helped that some, but I get an extra half a degree from the hormone cream, and I'm still half a degree cold. Maybe a T3/T4 combination...but I digress.

    Sorry, that whole last paragraph was to say that I apparently don't have any trouble absorbing the other things in the same cream. Maybe a higher dose in the cream - or use half the cream and a DHEA cream too. I go in for lab review next week.
  10. Ema

    Ema Senior Member

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    This is why it is better to get hormones separately so they can be individually adjusted or the form can be changed easily if necessary.

    DHEA needs to be the micronized or lipid matrix form if taken orally.

    Ema
  11. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Ema, I have to disagree with you.
    My cream is compounded per the Rx given to the pharmacy. It was less expensive than having 5 creams. The ratios can be adjusted easily, so I think I will stay with a combination cream. Adding a DHEA cream would let me use up what I have already bought.
    My current dose was the healthcare provider's first attempt, not knowing how my body would respond. When some of the hormones aren't detected on high-sensitivity tests, you don't really know how if they are just not getting made or if they are getting destroyed, especially when my cholesterol is fine and I am getting plenty of minerals. It's possible that supplementing pregnenolone would fix everything down to cortisol and estrogen, but we couldn't know that in advance.
  12. heapsreal

    heapsreal iherb 10% discount code OPA989,

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    also alternate where u put the cream, ie your using your forearm, alternate between each forearm every second day can help too.
  13. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    My dispenser works such that I use two clicks in the morning and two in the evening. I've just been using both arms both times. Why would it matter?
  14. triffid113

    triffid113 Day of the Square Peg

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    I supplement DHEA so mine is high (don't remember how high). No one here can advise you to take DHEA if you've had breast cancer. The accepted knowledge is NO. Esp. consider this: you are not even considered cured until 5 years have passed! If you want to be a pilgrim you need to read your own studies and make your own decisions. And it would be an extremely risky endeavor. So no.

    I don't care what the cortisol test shows I know when I have adrenal problems...my stage 3 hypertension becomes hypotension and I need salt or I pass out. Very clear. I take tyrosine and zinc for both my thyroid and my adrenal gland as these are raw materials for these glands to work with. adrenal problems are very common and do not necessarily indicate Addison's so much a being beat up by the American lifestyle. Number one is QUIT drinking caffeine! 2 cups of coffee raises cortisol by 33%!! This is liquid stress! If your DHEA level is low you NEED to keep your cortisol down. Because there is a DHEA:cortisol level which governs how much stress you can take. So stop drinking caffeinated beverages and let your adrenal gland recover. Give it the tyrosine and zinc it needs. You can take an adaptogen like rhodiola (worked for me until age 50 - it raises glycogen stores). Follow a low stress lifestyle. A tough road for sure...take care
    Triff

    P.S. I feel very bad supplementing thyroid hormone and/or adrenal hormone directly...it seems one has to be very prompt and very precise on dose and I find that impossible. (I believe I am high functioning autisitic and I have that unawareness of passage of time that goes with that). I find it works much better to supply the raw materials these glands need and let them do their stuff.
  15. xks201

    xks201 Senior Member

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    Anything below 10 for cortisol taken in the AM is adrenal insufficiency I don't care what the ref range says. You guys gotta replace those low DHEA levels.
    heapsreal likes this.
  16. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    10? what units were those? Mine was .09 mcg/dL morning, undetectable (<.03) all other times.

    I was using progesterone, a precursor of cortisol, and got to feeling better. (Progesterone had been undetectable too, at the time). I was taken off all hormones this week because the low doses were building up in my system. I'm kind of afraid of a cortisol crash.
  17. xks201

    xks201 Senior Member

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    The low doses were building up? That sounds like an oxymoron. Best to go on hc replacement if u r low. Adrenal insufficiency is nothing to mess with..I almost died from doctors not diagnosing it in time.
  18. Critterina

    Critterina Senior Member

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    Yeah, I'm going to lobby for taking Progesterone. I seem to convert it to cortisol just fine. That's what worries me, running out of cortisol. But I need to take about half of what I was taking.

    It may sound like an oxymoron but this is what happened: I was low on everything, I went on low-dose HRT for May 15-July 30, and all my numbers went high (like 165% to 450% of high-normal), except DHEA. So she took me off it all.

    In three days off my HRT, my temps have dropped half a degree. I'm going to try to get my temps up with supplements (NADH, LCF, ribose, AdB12 - my theory is that these help). If I'm wrong, I'm lobbying for at least progesterone and DHEA. Or maybe I could take pregnenelone and make them, just like I take progesterone and make cortisol. I don't know what's broken. I'd like to go over all the cholesterol to end product (cortisol, estrogen) genes and see which are problematic, but that's a lot of work.

    I just had the NutrEval done today, and some other blood work. Maybe that will give me a better clue.
  19. roxie60

    roxie60 Senior Member

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    So why dont Endo's recognize any AM Cortisol below 10 as adrenal insufficiency???? I had three AM Cortisol tests over three weeks (3.7, 2.1, 5.2) and one time also had ACTH of 7. DHEA was in range or so I was told and then became high after a STIM test (I'm not sure what they were testing but had two DHEA results (not DHEA-s) ne in range and one high out of range.

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