'yoga created by men for male bodies'

[JAM]

ah I see @golden Never thought about this really and it being originally for men. Interesting. I know one gal with M.E. claimed she got real bad palpitations from doing yoga. Not sure exactly why. I wonder if qui gong is similar? As in for men. Polarity yoga, invented by Dr. Randolph Stone, is easier for me though I can't do some of the poses. Gotta keep yerself a bit supple n jiggly eh

If she was new to yoga her body was probably not used to that kind of movement. I've seen healthy, very athletic people come into a yoga class and work a whole advanced set their first time and pass out, also seen them get physically ill from just doing the beginning meditation and breathing exercises. Yoga is not all about the musculature, and work with the nerves alone may throw someone's rhythm out of wack. Qui Gong and Tai Chi can have the same effects. I don't like the term "energy", but something is happening with these systems that affects us in ways we do not yet understand.

 

[JAM]

'We get many calls from Yoga practitioners and teachers who are shocked to find they have prolapse. “How could this be? I’ve been practicing Yoga for thirty years.” is a common comment'. (Christine Kent).
Golden

I'd like to see a list of names of these Yoga practitioners. She makes so many claims without providing any evidence to back them up.

 

[manna]

If she was new to yoga her body was probably not used to that kind of movement. I've seen healthy, very athletic people come into a yoga class and work a whole advanced set their first time and pass out, also seen them get physically ill from just doing the beginning meditation and breathing exercises. Yoga is not all about the musculature, and work with the nerves alone may throw someone's rhythm out of wack. Qui Gong and Tai Chi can have the same effects. I don't like the term "energy", but something is happening with these systems that affects us in ways we do not yet understand.

I have gotten ill from tai chi in the sense of it instigating a healing curve so was a good thing. It wasn't till after I stopped that I realised that. I wish I'd never stopped. I assume the lady in question just did too much too quickly or was pushing herself and not abiding by the idea that there should be no strain. I've done Hatha yoga with no problems though some postures would potentially be off limits to M.E. I think in classes, like the Tai Chi one I attended, can be more powerfull due to an energy share with the group.

I think many people may go at it like they would any ordinary exercise, i.e. no pain no gain, and that could be inviting problems. I personally think that as long as you take it easy you should be fine.
_________________________
I highly recommend the squatting postures in polarity therapy as an adjunct. I've seen Tai Chi practitioners use them alongside the form. They're easy, as long as you have some suppleness to begin with, and really free up the pelvis and help grounding. Effective and quick with very little exertion. Tai chi's "silk reeling" is also very easy and beneficial. These are all implosive exercises, i.e. they suck energy to the centre, as opposed to explosive (like aerobic) which sends energy away from the centre. It's why athletes and sports people are always injured...too much explosion without the healing implosion. I think I'll do some now!

 

[Dreambirdie]

I have been doing yoga since I was a teenager (nearly 40 years) and I have not had any issues with prolapsed anything from yoga. Nor do I have any issues with my back because of yoga.

The ONLY issue I have had is a wrist issue that I got from doing a routine with a lot of chatarangas. I eventually had to make an adjustment, based on my chiropractor's advice, to never do the chataranga position with my wrist bent at a right angle to my arm, and bearing all my body weight. Instead I put my fist on the floor to keep my wrists straight. This was a very necessary and helpful fix to the problem.

Yoga has been very beneficial for me, and I try to do at least 10 minutes a day whenever I can, and more if I am up for that. I think the reason I have had so few adverse effects from yoga is that I have never pushed myself beyond what feels right for my body in the moment. I am almost entirely self-taught from books and videos. I have been to classes a few times, but never found a teacher that I liked. Most pushed too hard or expected you to do their routine without adjustments.That's where the damage happens.

Yoga means UNITY, referring to unity of body, mind and breath. That is the purpose of it, and that is what should be one's intention in practice.

 

[golden]

http://www.savingthewholewoman.com/

Editing in progress -

' As a former gynecologic surgeon who

came to see the error his ways, I

passionately readSaving the Whole

Woman. ***** Christine's work is Medically accurate***** and will bring hope to millions

of women suffering from pelvic organ prolapse and who want to avoid surgery. I hope mothers will share this work with their daughters to help them avoid the kind of childbirth experience that sets them up for problems later in life.

Michel Odent, MD
Author of Primal Health and The Caesarean
Director, Primal Health Research Center
London,
UK_________________________________________


Christine Horner MD
As a surgeon who became enlightened to natural health, I recommend avoiding surgery for the treatment of chronic disorders if there are natural approaches that work just as well, if not better. Christine Kent has made a major contribution to women by compiling a comprehensive research-supported natural approach to the common problems of pelvic organ prolapse and urinary incontinence. Any woman ready to take charge of her health needs to read this book!

Christine Horner, MD FACS
Author
Waking the Warrior Goddess:
Dr. Christine Horner’s Program to Protect Against
and Fight Breast Cancer,
Winner of the 2006 IPPY Award for
“Best book in health, medicine, and nutrition."

 

[golden]

@JAM

I havent thoroughly looked into CKs technique but it sounds ok to me and accurate. I am pleased to see a UK Gyn doctor endorse it. (quoted as above)

Women are butchered by the NHS.

It is after all a male based profession and I am no longer much interested in Western Medical thought since its so off base.

Its refreshing to read of medics dishing
out alternative ways and advice.

I dont think Doctors much understsnd female form.
And there currently isnt ANY satisfactory trials or testing.

Thinkingvof all the ways women have been destabilised - foot binding, high heels, packed with plastic etc. it wouldnt suprise me to discover the fundamental tucking pelvis in posture is wrong.

This Nurse is not advocating damaging yourself by forcing a curvature - but re-discovering your *natural* curvature - de conditioning from the military male style.

I havent tried it yet - so i dont know.
You wont try it or look into it because you find it silly and a waste of time.

Therefore neither of us have the knowledge of this technique. So the discussion isnt going to get very far lol

I can say I am throwing out my pilates DVD if I ever find it

 

[JAM]

@JAM

Women are butchered by the NHS.

It is after all a male based profession and I am no longer much interested in Western Medical thought since its so off base.

Thinkingvof all the ways women have been destabilised - foot binding, high heels, packed with plastic etc. it wouldnt suprise me to discover the fundamental tucking pelvis in posture is wrong.

This Nurse is not advocating damaging yourself by forcing a curvature - but re-discovering your *natural* curvature - de conditioning from the military male style.

Therefore neither of us have the knowledge of this technique. So the discussion isnt going to get very far lol

I can say I am throwing out my pilates DVD if I ever find it

Have you been reading what I'm saying? I don't trust western medicine either, but equating western medicine to Yoga and/or Pilates doesn't make a lick of sense. Pilates was developed by a man and refined by he and a woman, though the woman gets very little credit, mostly for women (ballet dancers in particular) and people recovering from injury and illness. https://www.pilates.com/BBAPP/V/pilates/origins-of-pilates.html So please learn about what you are discarding off hand at the suggestion of a woman who is clearly out for profit.

I did read enough to see that she does advocate forcing the posture, did you read the quote I posted from the review?

I went to military school and was never told to eliminate the natural curvature of my spine, only hold it. There were two people in my squad who had to change their lumbar curve, one male and one female, both with lordosis, both were horribly out of shape when they arrived.

My problem with this woman is that she is flat out lying to get money from women and using sexism as a tool to do it.

 

[Wayne]

It's why athletes and sports people are always injured...too much explosion without the healing implosion. I think I'll do some now!

HI JAM, thanks for your great posts. I'm especially intrigued by the aspects of explosion and implosion. -- BTW, sorry, but our posts don't qualify as rants. Perhaps close to it in some spots, but, ummmm, not quite there.

 

[JAM]

You are welcome, but that particular one is not mine. That would @manna

 

[manna]

HI JAM, thanks for your great posts. I'm especially intrigued by the aspects of explosion and implosion. -- BTW, sorry, but our posts don't qualify as rants. Perhaps close to it in some spots, but, ummmm, not quite there.

Rants are like ants in your pants...you just gotta get em out! This is manna btw not JAM though both could be said to be edible . Yeah implosion is cool. It's how the universe works using the spiral...everything's made from spirals as you may know...dna, ears, milky way, tornados etc etc. There is some explosion in nature like volcanoes etc but it's predominantly implosive. Copy nature and be predominantly implosive and you will heal. All the healing I do is implosive like acupuncture, pulsors etc.

The technology man has created works on explosion, like the combustion engine etc...in the future some believe we will harness the power of implosion for "free energy" devices and power. Tai Chi is all about the spiral in one aspect...cool beans cool beans

 

[golden]

Have you been reading what I'm saying? I don't trust western medicine either, but equating western medicine to Yoga and/or Pilates doesn't make a lick of sense. Pilates was developed by a man and refined by he and a woman, though the woman gets very little credit, mostly for women (ballet dancers in particular) and people recovering from injury and illness. https://www.pilates.com/BBAPP/V/pilates/origins-of-pilates.html So please learn about what you are discarding off hand at the suggestion of a woman who is clearly out for profit.

I did read enough to see that she does advocate forcing the posture, did you read the quote I posted from the review?

I went to military school and was never told to eliminate the natural curvature of my spine, only hold it. There were two people in my squad who had to change their lumbar curve, one male and one female, both with lordosis, both were horribly out of shape when they arrived.

My problem with this woman is that she is flat out lying to get money from women and using sexism as a tool to do it.

Yes, I am reading what you are saying. And yes i read your amazon link. You quoted the lady re: her back. But failed to mention she had a severe stage 3 uterine prolapse which she said did in fact improve - however she then went on to credit this improvement from prayer.

You mentioned CKs advice was wrong due to Anat & phys.

You would not elaborate.

You required published 'evidence: in medical journals with scans etc. Before you would even bother to look into it.

And yet now you say equating western medicine to yoga doesnt make a lick of sense. Doesnt it? Why not?

Even the dalai lama said something along the lines of if science proves buddhism wrong, buddhism will have to change.

You then keep on suggesting i try other things whilst simultaneously insulting this Nurse...

You sugges i try polarity therapy, rolfing (had to look that one up!, yoga with a woman instructor! (if that makes me feel more 'comfortable' :-/)

Whilst you call this ladies work silly, a quack who is out only to lie and steal my money and prey on people.

I have had damage done by Alternative Practitioners. I had an Atlas Profilax (trademark) treatment costing £160 - i got a small discount, which was crap. I passed comment on that because I had experience of it.

I am in favour of attaining reliable objective data on AP therapies
too. It has beem really disappointing to see how APs arent always as great as they seemed.

And most of the time they are just the opposite side of the same coin.

Always found it (mostly) best to use my intuition and healing.

I guess this technique threatens your livelihood or credentials? I am sorry that my thread has upset you in some way.



because

 

[golden]

Rants are like ants in your pants...you just gotta get em out! This is manna btw not JAM though both could be said to be edible . Yeah implosion is cool. It's how the universe works using the spiral...everything's made from spirals as you may know...dna, ears, milky way, tornados etc etc. There is some explosion in nature like volcanoes etc but it's predominantly implosive. Copy nature and be predominantly implosive and you will heal. All the healing I do is implosive like acupuncture, pulsors etc.

The technology man has created works on explosion, like the combustion engine etc...in the future some believe we will harness the power of implosion for "free energy" devices and power. Tai Chi is all about the spiral in one aspect...cool beans cool beans

'copy nature and be predominantly implosive...and you will heal...'

or give yourself a bad episode of diarrhoea!

 

[manna]

'copy nature and be predominantly implosive...and you will heal...'

or give yourseld a bad episode of diarrhoea!

Diarrhoea? Never heard of it

oh yeaaah..comes out ya bum like a bullet from a gun

 

[Dreambirdie]

Always found it (mostly) best to use my intuition and healing.

Yes!... THIS.

What works, and what does not work, is always highly individual. Using intuition to discern what is best FOR YOU can be helpful.

Yoga does me good. I have no prolapsed anything from 30+ years of it.

If there are others here who have had prolapsed organs from yoga, they must be rare, as I have never heard of this happening to anyone I know. I wonder if @Sushi knows anything about this. She has a lot of experience with yoga...?

 

[JAM]

Yes, I am reading what you are saying. And yes i read your amazon link. You quoted the lady re: her back. But failed to mention she had a severe stage 3 uterine prolapse which she said did in fact improve - however she then went on to credit this improvement from prayer.

You mentioned CKs advice was wrong due to Anat & phys.

You would not elaborate.

You required published 'evidence: in medical journals with scans etc. Before you would even bother to look into it.

And yet now you say equating western medicine to yoga doesnt make a lick of sense. Doesnt it? Why not?

Even the dalai lama said something along the lines of if science proves buddhism wrong, buddhism will have to change.

You then keep on suggesting i try other things whilst simultaneously insulting this Nurse...

You sugges i try polarity therapy, rolfing (had to look that one up!, yoga with a woman instructor! (if that makes me feel more 'comfortable' :-/)

Whilst you call this ladies work silly, a quack who is out only to lie and steal my money and prey on people.

I have had damage done by Alternative Practitioners. I had an Atlas Profilax which was crap. I passed comment on that because I had experience of it.

I am in favour of attaining reliable objective data on AP therapies
too. It has beem really disappointing to see how APs arent always as great as they seemed.

And most of the time they are just the opposite side of the same coin.

Always found it (mostly) best to use my intuition and healing.

I guess this technique threatens your livelihood or credentials? I am sorry that my thread has upset you in some way.



because

Wow, threatens my livelihood as a graduate student? My credentials, that I haven't used since going back to school, but just keep up because I find the study useful to my health and fascinating? Sure, that is why I am opposed to a woman using blatant lies, sexism, and unverified claims to shell her products. I am not upset, just countering the claims and giving the info you say you want.

Have you done even a little research into how the muscles of the body support the skeletal structure? Using that information and a little bit of understanding of physics it is very easy to see how everything she is basing her "techniques" on is wrong. Period, no intuition needed. I am a proponent of intuition, but only when backed up by facts.

Oh, and Western medicine is based in Western thought. Yoga is an Eastern system, based in Eastern thought, which is completely different.

I do want to see some evidence of such exceptional claims. "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." Carl Sagan

There have been many times when I have tried things without such evidence, but only when there were no known facts that made the claims impossible. Lordosis is bad. Period.

 

[Sushi]

Yes!... THIS.

What works, and what does not work, is always highly individual.
Yoga does me good. I have no prolapsed anything from 30+ years of it.

If there are others here who have had prolapsed organs from yoga, they must be rare, as I have never heard of this happening to anyone I know. I wonder if @Sushi knows anything about this. She has a lot of experience with yoga...?

I haven't heard of prolapsed organs but I have heard of a lot of other types of injuries--mainly from poorly trained teachers. I had cartilage damage to a knee and a back injury due to teachers not knowing what they were doing.

Sushi

 

[Dreambirdie]

@Sushi This is why I avoided teachers and learned yoga on my own. In some of the classes I went to I saw people being too intimidated by the teacher's directions to speak up and tell them they didn't want to do "that posture." I also saw some major show-offs trying to impress others. That's wrong yoga, IMO.

 

[JAM]

@Sushi This is why I avoided teachers and learned yoga on my own. In some of the classes I went to I saw people being too intimidated by the teacher's directions to speak up and tell them they didn't want to do "that posture." I also saw some major show-offs trying to impress others. That's wrong yoga, IMO.

I've done yoga on my own, with good teachers, and with bad. My favorite by far is with a good teacher. Finding a yoga teacher is like finding a doctor, we have to do our due diligence and check them out. When we find a good one it is soooo worth it!

 

[golden]

Diarrhoea? Never heard of it

oh yeaaah..comes out ya bum like a bullet from a gun

folk may need this thread then

 

[golden]

Oh boy. I'm a personal trainer, meditation, Pilates and Tai Chi instructor, and Yoga practitioner, and I agree with @metalnun. Every body is different. There are some poses that are not good for some people, Yoga and Pilates are not one size fits all, we get all that training so we can determine what will work for each individual. A pronounced lumbar curve is not healthy and causes many structural problems. Sorry, I can't get over how silly that article is. Deep breath. Prolapse is a very serious problem and it infuriates me that someone would so blatantly spread mis-information in that manner. Grrrrr. End rant.

^^^ I was talking about these credentials @JAM.